RomanArmyTalk

Did the Greeks in the 5th century use some type of saddle or saddle cloth on their horses? Any images..?
Johnny

The famous Dexileos funerary relief in the Kerameikos Museum, Athens, shows the man riding bareback (afair).
Maybe someone has an image?

Maybe the saddle was painted in..?

Duncan,
I ordered one of your books yesterday(Besieged). Look forward to reading it..!

Johnny

Dear Johhny,

Most of the pottery coming from the era has the red color that once showed the details extinct. So most horsemen appear "saddle-less".

The saddle was invented by the Skythians and it became known to the Greeks through the Thracian colonies or even the Crimean colonies.

Here is a Geometric era "riding goddess" with a saddle,
Exibit from the Benaki museum dated 800 B.C:

Hermitage museum pottery showing Herkules with Diomedes horses.
Saddle cloths visible.

Xenophon advices the use of saddle cloth on his works which makes many think that people went saddle less but no one can guarantee that it was general practice.

Many marble relief in Olympia, Athena and various museums in Thessaly show saddle if examined carefully.

It was probably the staly that was painted in the Kanaluk tombs.

Kind regards

Maybe a mix of saddles and no saddles. Depending on the individual rider....
Thanks for the images!
Johnny

Johnny I would say not saddle but what art shows its a heavy Blanket instead, perhaps this was the most remote way as well bareback untill Skythian did the job.


1) -Dinos
Painter: --
Date: ca 530 BC
Period: Archaic


There is more better examples but for the next Century(4th C. B.C.), not only a "Blanket?" but also animal.

2) - <--- Blanket from Xanthos Monument.


3)-Funerary relief for a soldier. His helmet painted above the horses back, 4th century BC, National Archaeology Museum, Athens

Quote:Maybe a mix of saddles and no saddles.

Maybe. Gioi's last image reminds me of the Alexander mosaic, where the mounted Alexander appears to be seated on an animal-skin.

Quote:I ordered one of your books yesterday(Besieged). Look forward to reading it..!

Hope you enjoy it, Johnny. You'll find some stunning colour photos supplied by our colleague Jona, too. (My favourite is on p. 68.)

Great photos..!

What I mean by saddle is the blanket. Sorry for the confusion...

Duncan,
Have you got any nice info on Halicarnassus..?

Johnny

Yup ! Padded blanket........skythian type saddles came later......

Have a look at the sabraques of the Napoleonic times and the option of the animal skin over the sadle appears.

Us moderns think of the saddle as reinforced leather and wood combinationa but a few rolls of felt as the Scythians demonstrated could do the job perfectly.

Kind regards

On the topıc of early saddles, I found thıs lısted some tıme ago onlıne:

"Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans: Iranian-Speaking Nomads of the Eurasian
Steppes

Autonomous University of Barcelona, 7-10 May 2007

Paper 62. Vinogradov, Jurij [- Nikonorov, Valerij] (St. Petersburg) A Wooden Saddle Core of the Latter Half of the 4th c. B.C. from Panticapaeum"

I haven't been able to get a hold of ıt yet, but ıt sounds very ınterestıng.

Yes it is very interesting. Hard material saddles are usually ascosiated with the Romans. This thing sheds probably new light.

Kind regards

Quote:Dear Johhny,

Most of the pottery coming from the era has the red color that once showed the details extinct. So most horsemen appear "saddle-less".

The saddle was invented by the Skythians and it became known to the Greeks through the Thracian colonies or even the Crimean colonies.

Here is a Geometric era "riding goddess" with a saddle,
Exibit from the Benaki museum dated 800 B.C:

I can't open the file. Does it show a saddle with a tree?!? I would find that very hard to believe - the saddle with a tree was AFAIK invented only a thousand years later, and in the eastern, not western Eurasian steppe.

Do you have more material (pics, articles) on the Scythian saddles?