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These are arms from a macedonian tomb 550-525 bc in Greece.Can someone tell the length of the spearheads and why they are so long? They seem to be as long as the Xiphos.Also do you think the smaller wide leaf shaped ones were spearheads or javelin heads?

Weapons
The long wide leaf shaped spearhads are described as hunting javelin heads.Also in helenistic or lte classical vases show such big javelin heads.
Khaire
Giannis
Its not hellenistic or late classical.How about the rest? Boar spears or just very long spearheads.Also do yuou have any images of a proper javelin head?
Try this link www.4hoplites.com -> weapons.
You will find interesting info and first hand reanctros experience.

Kind regards
That offers some generic info on spears.What about these particular ones?
Very long irons pear heads -over 60 cm. in lenght- are commnon in Iberia, Italy and also Greece in the sixth-fifth centuries BC. They are usually considered close combat, heavy thrusting spears used by well-armed champions in individual combat or in close formations. In my opinion they are NOT hunting weapons, while the shorter, very wide heads are.
Could you provide some info on these particular weapons? Were do they come from and if they have been properly published?
Macedonia tomb, funeral pyre 550-525 bc ,Amyntas I was king at the time.

[url:34x4oqsz]http://people.clemson.edu/%7Eelizab/aegae.htm[/url]



[url:34x4oqsz]http://people.clemson.edu/%7Eelizab/aegae.htm#overviewverginasite[/url]
Thnx! Big Grin
Hmm the lion hunt in in Pella shows a long bladed heavy javeline(spear?).
Hope it helps.

Kind regards
Themistoklis,this is a terrific site,thanks.
There are more in the yahoo group you are in (megistias) check the links section
So the spears are made for war to be wielded by champions ,officers or elite troops and the javelin heads are for hunting?

What does a proper war javelin head look like?
Any more input on this?
Although there is not a fixed rule, valid for any time and period, during the Iron Age in the Mediterranean, javelins tended to be expendable, and usually had smaller, lighter points. Hunting javelin heads are often wider than war javelin heads. The latter are often designed to perforate shields and even armour, while the former tend to maximize wide, bleeding wounds for hunting big game in 'persecution' hunting.
In most cases war heads have a midrib while hunting heads have a flat, romboidal or lenticular section. Also many javelin heads come in the 15 to 20 cm. lenght range. But again, this is an overs implification, any 'hunting' javelin could be used in war.
Spearheads come in a wide variety of shapes and forms. Very long and heavy spearheads (50 cm. and over), usually with a thick midrib, are not suitable for throwing, and are usually considered as pure thrusting spears; they are more typical of the earlier part of the period (6th to 5th c. BC). Middle sized spearheads (in the 25 to 40 cm. range) come in a huge variety of shapes; most of them are multifunctional, i.e., they can be thrown to a distance of about 10 to 15 m. or used -more usually- as thrusting spears. Thinner and smaller midribs tend to pair with wide, leaf-shaped spearheads, with smaller perforatig power and therefore more useful for game hunting and against unarmoured troops and horses. Also, wide spearheads can be used also for cutting with their edges during a 'recoil' movement if the initial thrusting attack fails.
Overall, highly specialized spear and javelin heads were far less common tham 'general use' spearheads in the 20 to 35 cm. range. Obviously, any type of head could be used in any situation if necessary, and until the first state and royal arsenals and mass-production facilities were created in the Late Classical period -and even more during the Hellenistic period- the local and artisanal nature of blacksmith workshops ensured that variety was the norm. In fact, most spearhead typologies for a given period or culture tend to be either extremely complex or too general for really useful use (i.e. Snodgrass for Archaic Greece; Bruinaux&Rapin for La Tène in Gaul, Quesada for Second Iron Age Iberia an do on).
To further complicate thing, while most pike points in History have tended to be small and very dense, pyramidal, ike bodkins in many cases, it seems also tclear that many sarissa heads were quite wide, in apparent contradiction with what I said above.
Finally, most times -perhaps up to 90% of the occurrences- archaeological finds do not allow a clear disctinction between javelin, spear and pike points. It is context and subtle details that allow as to make the distinction -for example, a bunch of six small spearheads in a burial probably indicates javelins-; but most times it is just inference based in size, weight, form...-

Hope this helps, although I'm myself aware of the relative vagueness of the of the above lines... Cry
Thankou i thought i would be confusing! Big Grin
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