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Full Version: Any thoughts/opinions of this helmet?
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It's an oddball but, I do like it and,it looks like it would be easier to reproduce than most. Any ideas about it?
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... l#Guttmann
The helmet reminds me of an Intercisa, with the unusual eyebrows 8)
I like a lot those Weisenau helmets, especially the early ones with something of Agen/Port-celtic taste. You're right: it could be easier to make than the others and if you reproduce one of them (the red riveted one, for example, and tinned for example... Big Grin ) I can't wait to see it in a full impression! It rocks... 8)

Vale,
The eyebrows do look alot like the ones on the later ridge helmets maybe the Intercisa eyebrows where a continuation of the older style and,not a new development?
The "red riveted one" kinda strikes me as some where in between the Gallic A and,the later Gallic types. As far as I can tell there are no crest fittings unless maybe the rivet in the forehead so,maybe it is an auxiliary helmet.
Another thing that is odd about this one is there doesn't seem to have been a ring on the neck guard for the chin ties and,no brow reinforce.
Quote:As far as I can tell there are no crest fittings unless maybe the rivet in the forehead so,maybe it is an auxiliary helmet.
I doubt that would be a reason to define the difference between legionary and auxiliary. Both types of troops could surely have crests, or not.
[/quote]
I doubt that would be a reason to define the difference between legionary and auxiliary. Both types of troops could surely have crests, or not.[/quote]

I didn't know that.I always thought the main reason the Auxiliary Infantry B was classed as an Auxiliary helmet was due to the fact that there was no crest attatchments.
Of course,that never made alot of sense to me even if noncitzens didn't wear crests it would be a simple matter of not putting one on the helmet even if there was attachments.
There is another helmet that to my eye looks very simmilar to the Auxiliary Inf. B but,has a crest knob simmilar to the Gallic I from Aquincum and,iron cheek guards.
I've often wondered if there is such a thing as a "Legionary"or "Auxiliary Infantry" helmet.
Quote:I've often wondered if there is such a thing as a "Legionary"or "Auxiliary Infantry" helmet.

H R Robinson thought so, indicating in his classification of Roman helmets that simple, undecorated helmets would be for auxiliary usage.

Archaeology doesn't seem to support his theory. The Gallic A from Nijmegen was found in a grave with a round shield boss typical of provincial auxiliary type.
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

Another helmet which Robinson classified as a Gallic E (very ornate) was also found with a round shield boss and a bent sword (often found in non-Roman burials) at Idria pri Baci.

A third example, also with bent sword and conical round shield boss was found at Verdun.
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

Going back to the original thread topic, there was an early iron helmet of the 'Port bei Nidau' type dredged up in the Kessel/Lith region of the Netherlands. It has not only eyebrow decoration raised from the bowl, but also the eye shapes themselves. It was a river deposition (probably Batavian)
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... helmet.jpg

Here's my attempt at a reconstruction drawing.. I based the neck and cheek guard portions on the Mainz and Rouen helmets...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... to0011.jpg
The eyes on the 'Port bei Nidau' from Kessel/Lith and, our "red riveted one" are pretty close I think. Tacitus said that the Auxilia retained there native arms, so maybe it is just a helmet that has retained more "native" traits.
A helmet being found in a grave with other typical auxiliary gear makes a pretty good argument for that type of helmet being used by auxiliary troops to me.
So from a reenacting stand point if Gallic type helmets have been found with other auxiliary gear in graves then Gallic helmets including the "red riveted one"(I like that name)should be pretty safe for a first century auxiliary infantry impression. True or, false?
However, these round shield bosses also appear in context with Legionaries. To make the round shield bosses exclusively auxiliary items seems a bit overinterpreted IMO. In fact, the rectangular shield bosses do not occur that often as they should, if they were extensively or exclusively used by the legions. IMO the clipeus / oval shield was much more in use by legionaries than we may think.
Quote:IMO the clipeus / oval shield was much more in use by legionaries than we may think.

Agreed. What happened to the idea (and fledgling debate) that soldiers had more than one type of shield for different combat needs?
Manning Imperial makes a similar copy of the helmet in question....

http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_id=351
Quote:However, these round shield bosses also appear in context with Legionaries. To make the round shield bosses exclusively auxiliary items seems a bit overinterpreted IMO. In fact, the rectangular shield bosses do not occur that often as they should, if they were extensively or exclusively used by the legions. IMO the clipeus / oval shield was much more in use by legionaries than we may think.

I'm willing to go for the idea that Legionaries used the clipeus as well as the scutum but, how many from the first century C.E. would have taken one to the grave with them?
There should be more rectangular bosses around true but,shouldn't there be more auxiliary helmets as well?

IMO a clipeus would be the better shield for light infantry tactics and,the scutum for pitched battle in the open but, I always thought the auxiliary infantry where the light infantry and,the Legionaries did the "heavy" work.
Quote:Gallic helmets including the "red riveted one"(I like that name)should be pretty safe for a first century auxiliary infantry impression. True or, false?

True, but only as far as mid first century IMHO.

Quote:However, these round shield bosses also appear in context with Legionaries. To make the round shield bosses exclusively auxiliary items seems a bit overinterpreted IMO

Agreed, but how many Roman Citizens were buried in typical provincial fashion with bent swords? :wink:
Well in that case,if I can't turn the train wreck of a Gallic I that I bought on Ebay into a auxiliary helmet I may try my hand at making a copy of the red riveted one
Quote:Manning Imperial makes a similar copy of the helmet in question....

http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_id=351

This is a helmet from the Axel Guttmann collection. The Manning version is very good.

The original..
[url:1a13090j]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/peronis/f-200520Weisenau202.jpg[/url]
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