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Thanks Steve,
I'd love to see any material on flags and banners. When setting up a middle byzantine military encampment the banners of the taxiarchs were taken to the respective quadrants they would occupy with their troops. This suggests that they could differentiate by colour or symbol at least. I would like to hear about any primary references any one has for this topic.

I'll do a bit of a search next week. Flat out at the moment. When I find it I'll photocopy it and send it to you - or would you prefer me to scan it? It would take a lot of memory.

Snail mail is fine. I'm away with work for the next week so take your time. Hoope you are enjoying the Military treatises.
I am curious why 1071 has been selected as the end date for the discussion of the Byzantine military. Why not 1204, 1453 or 1461?

My reason for asking is that I am interested in the Byzantine military and want to learn more about it across the entire time frame of the empire and its successor states.

We didn't really.
But look here: ... light=1071

For me, 1204 would also be a good date, but 1071 is in my view better because the loss of Anatolia in my personal view really ended the Empire-status of Byzantium.
Actually, I find 636 (Yarmuk and the loss of Syria, Palestine and Egypt) an even better date, or 650 to round it off.

I understand your wish, and actually no one will stop anyone discussing the Byzantine Empire until 1453, but i dare say that most members on this forum will not have general knowledge that reaches so far. Maybe a specialist Byzantine forum would serve that purpose better?
Quote:I was unsure to post... but heck! :lol:
Well, glad to se that you're back with us. I'm still very sad that you delete so many of your posts... Cry Cry

And.. your signature? :wink:
Is the red dragon banner greek or italian?
Hoplitesmores:29s3vdv6 Wrote:Is the red dragon banner greek or italian?
That question deserve an answer, we need some research.
But curiously italians had portrayed him with Dragon's few times if I recall.
You know they love their mother side lineage of the Dragons from Serbia.

Well, there's also the Red Dragon of Wales, of which it is speculated that it goes back to the Late Roman draco standard.
Quote:[Image: 16.jpg]

AFAIK it's a portrait of Sultan Mehmet II (The Conqueror) by an Italian artist. The accuracy IMO is questionable.
Could the paintings of Piero della Francesca shed some light on the mystery of late Byzantine arms and armor? Those paintings were made in 1450 - 1460s. Some characters in them wear certain elements associated with the late Byzantine costume. So, if we discard some western items ( like Milanese suits of armor) and those which are artist's fantasy,could it be that he depicted some authentic items of Byzantine armor? Of course it's difficult to tell with certainty which items are fantasy and which are real. The issue is complicated by the fact that late Byzantines made use of western or western-influenced armor.
What do you think? :?: ... piero1.jpg ... piero2.jpg
Why do you use 1071 as the end date instead of 1453 or something in between?

I ask because of an interest in the Byzantine military until the end of the empire.

If so then he is wearing Byzantine (Typical Paleologan) hat,

I think the artist used his fantasy a lot here, rather than refered to any first-hand depiction of the sultan. As for the hat worn by the emperors, as noted in Osprey's ''Byzantine Armies AD 1118–1461'', it is influenced by nomadic Turkic fashions. They are especially similar to Cuman hats.

Other point, I'm unsure that the Ottmans would expose long hair including the Sultan, I thing they would rather shave their heads or have short hair, the Byzan would be the other matter.

Sorry, still, I think that the portrait with the dragon hat was inspired from John P. personality.

Totally agree. :wink:
The artist, probably, had little idea of the Ottoman dress (or at least that of the sultan) but reasoned that it must have looked similar to that of Byz. (which wasn't actually far from truth). So that portrait must be based on depictions of late Byz. emperors but that dragon shape was probably given to the hat in order to add fearsomeness.
A nice 14th Century image of Alexius III of Trebizon with the empress wearing the double headed eagle on her clothes.
wow Gioi those sails looks greatly out Confusedhock: 8)
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