RomanArmyTalk

Full Version: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
http://www.gryph . com/byzantine/ cloaks.htm
shows a trapeziod cloak - anyone have experience with this design?
I am having some trouble executing this. An obvious requirement is that it be large enough at the shoulder/upper chest to entirely wrap around the body with a few inches spare... lets say 58 inches to accomidate a 43 chest plus the arms. with the trapazoid closing in at a uniform angle, that unfortunatly means that at the neck I have perhaps 45 inches...so there is a huge excess of cloth around the neck. The period pictures show a rather loose arangement with the fibula on the right shoulder - seems to me I can achieve that loose look and still have an extra 12 inches I don't know what to do with. I tried to fold it in and pin it well inside, but this came out bulky and messy... the folded in parts would unfold and flap out.

-Rick
Well, the Rhos were a type of Scandinavian/Slav mix and their armies were apparently infantry-based. Some would have had hauberks, helms, and probably several weapons (sword, axe, spear, etc.), but many would not have been so well-equipped. It is difficult to portray them to an exact detail.
I apparently accidently opened another thread... I could not figure out what happened to my post so I reposted it here.
However on that thread I later got much help. The gist of the answer, thanks to peter raftos and others, is that this picture is wrong. The cloak is like a semi hexagon (instead of semi circle) so the front edge and tabalions are on the long side. I Tried it and it works great!
Thanks to all.
-Rick

Quote:http://www.gryph. com/byzantine/ cloaks.htm
shows a trapeziod cloak - anyone have experience with this design?
I am having some trouble executing this. An obvious requirement is that it be large enough at the shoulder/upper chest to entirely wrap around the body with a few inches spare... lets say 58 inches to accomidate a 43 chest plus the arms. with the trapazoid closing in at a uniform angle, that unfortunatly means that at the neck I have perhaps 45 inches...so there is a huge excess of cloth around the neck. The period pictures show a rather loose arangement with the fibula on the right shoulder - seems to me I can achieve that loose look and still have an extra 12 inches I don't know what to do with. I tried to fold it in and pin it well inside, but this came out bulky and messy... the folded in parts would unfold and flap out.

-Rick
The more I look at the 12th-13th century Joshua fresco from Hosios Loukas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Byzan ... -Lucas.jpg

the more I'm convinced that the forearms are protected by mail, either mail manikelia or, less likely, the sleeves of a mail hauberk. The sleeves are of a grey colour which is quite different from the bright green of the tunic hem visible below the kremesmata skirt. The sleeves have a gold band which could be gilt mail links, and there is some sort of white drawstring at the wrist.

The clincher for me is the fact that Byzantine artists had a mania for depicting folds in cloth. Give a Byzantine artist a piece of textile clothing and he will fill it with folds and wrinkles. The forearms of Joshua are entirely wrinkle-free.
Contrast this with the extravagant folds shown to the hem of the tunic in the same image. Also see the 'ravelled' cloth rendering on the forearms of this 12th century steatite depiction of St George:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arte_ ... eatite.jpg
A couple of threads have spontaneously combusted into things Byzantine elswhere on RAT.
See the Marketplace section: link from old RAT for information on DSC producing Byzantine kit - ewer, situla, frypan and Skylitzes helms - a waterbottle is on the way.

Also Byzantine swords are the topic here in the Roman section:link from old RAT
Did the Byzantines use hot-air aerostates for signalling and since when so? Lynn White maintains that they were employed in Western Europe at least since the 9th century AD which I find a surprisingly early date for such a cunning device. Somehow it does not fit into the popular image of the crude modes of early medieval warfare.
The Romans had steam powered devices (a rotating contraption the 'aeolipile' and a powered oil-feed 'autolibation' system), so why not?
I only seeGreek kit in the link....where is the byzantine?
Gaius it is reviewed on page 2 of the thread and photos can be found here:[url:305ez9vq]http://reenactorswarehouse.com/ReenactorsWarehouseAccessories.htm[/url]
Thanks, must have been dozing...
Going back to the Argos mosaic for a minute...

About the strange brownish-yellow garment covering the groin - I think it may also appear in this fresco dating to 1,000 years earlier (!). What do you think ?

[Image: march_april.jpg][Image: Corinthians.jpg]

Does the figure on the left in the fresco appear to be wearing a similar garment ?

~Theo
The mosaic shows scale armour which extends down over the groin, the sides, and possibly the back, if 4 large flaps.
Scale armor over the groin ,sides, and back (possibly) ?
I've never heard that interpretation before. Graham Sumner, who may have had access to a photo with higher resolution, thinks the flaps are fabric. Anyhow, I thought the flaps may have been related to the groin flap in the fresco. I guess not, though.

Thanks for the input.

~Theo
Thats just the first impression I get looking at it. Guess I could be wrong.
Quote:I've read that the dating of the treatise of Syrianus Magister (formerly known as Anonymi Byzantini Peri strategias) has been revised and some scholars now think it's middle Byzantine work. Allegedly the arguments are summarised in this article:

Cosentino, S.: The Syrianos' Strategikon - a 9th Century Source?, Bizantinistica 2, 2000, 243-280.

Unfortunately I don't have access to this article. Have anybody read it and could write here the main arguments for different dating of this work?
Some (long) time ago I posted the above query on the dating of Syrianus Magister's treatise. Well I still haven't read the paper by Cosentino, but for those who are interested, another one by Philip Rance can currently be downloaded here.

Greetings
Alexandr
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43