RomanArmyTalk

Full Version: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
That is very cool stuff. I am always puzzled by this termonology...
"To learn that a work of art can provide
information about the ideals and beliefs of
the society in which it was made, in this case
the early Byzantine Empire."
Is that the same as the late Roman Empire, the middle west and east Roman empire, or what? Is there some official (in academic circles) date for the start of the Byzantine empire?
I know some people who refuse to use the term 'Byzantine', how do you feel about it?
I suppose I am planning public presentations and I will need to form a position on the matter... not a matter that has bothered me much, I must confess.
-Rick


Quote:Rick,

He mentions in passing the helmets of the David plates ( dated to 627-530 AD as most of have imperial control hallmarks) are identical to Joshua and Achilles type. See [url:2d3hxcz4]http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/publications/pdfs/david/DAVID_PLATES_ENTIRE_BOOK.pdf[/url] for pretty pictures.
caution.
Quote:Is that the same as the late Roman Empire, the middle west and east Roman empire, or what? Is there some official (in academic circles) date for the start of the Byzantine empire?

Hi Rick,

If you'd look at the wiki page about 'Byzantine' you would read that 'Byzantine' was a name dating back to the mid-16th century. The 'Byzantines' themselves called their empire Basileia ton Rh?mai?n (Greek: ???????? ??? ???????) — "The Empire of the Romans" — a translation of the Latin name of the Roman Empire (Latin: Imperium Roman?rum); or just Rh?mania (Greek: ???????). It was not until the 19th century, with the birth of modern Greece, that the term "Byzantine" came into general use in the Western world.

As to a 'starting point', this is mostly set at either 284 AD (Diocletian) or 330 AD, the foundation of Constantinople.
Jools the particular helmet is based on an example in the historical museum Moscow.
A similar one exists in the Kremlin armoury.
The Kremlin example is 12th century.
The Historical museum, sorry I have no date.
Kind regards
Quote:Sorry to slip this in but I came across this helmet and wondered if anyone had seen anything similar before or could correctly date it. Apparently it's Serbian (copy?) C10th but looks earlier?

Hello mate.

Answered this in 'Allies and Enemies'.
Thanks guys Big Grin
Finally some hardware has started to surface - a bit later than what I am interested in. A sword dated to the fourteenth or first half of the fifteenth centuries and described as Steel, forging, engraving; gold, casting; inlaying (damascening)- L 1110 mm.
See:
[url:1nvx1xbk]http://www.mpu.org.yu/english/byzantium/pages/mac.html[/url]
It is on loan from the museum of Belgrade. It is part of an exhibition in the UK called Byzantium 330 – 1453 at the Royal Academy of Arts - Main Galleries between 25 October 2008 – 22 March 2009

Their blurb " Highlighting the splendours of the Byzantine Empire, the exhibition will comprise around 300 objects including icons, detached wall paintings, micro-mosaics, ivories, enamels plus gold and silver metalwork. Some of the works have never been displayed in public before. Byzantium 330–1453 will include great works from the San Marco Treasury in Venice and rare items from collections across Europe, the USA, Russia, Ukraine and Egypt. The exhibition begins with the foundation of Constantinople in 330 AD by the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great and concludes with the capture of the city by the Ottoman forces of Mehmed II in 1453. This will be the first major exhibition on Byzantine Art in the United Kingdom for 50 years."

There is supposed to be a sabre / paramerion exhibited as well. Can any of our UK friends provide more info?
Currently, there is a a nomination of Byzantine navy at WP. IF you are an established contributor to WP, and informed in the subject, you may want to give your opinion on the article.

[size=85:26w73uds]Note that anonymous IPS and newly registered users are not allowed to vote. The nominator is not aware of this note, and usually notifying other users is heavily frowned upon at WP, but I thought there are quite a number of knowledgeable users around here, old and experienced enough to decide on their own whether the article stands up to top quality or not.[/size]
Avete Omnes,

Quote:2.b) Has anyone seen pictures with the harness on an undoubted plate armor breast&back?
Yes, see the photos below.
[Image: diptych_barberini_louvre_oa3850.jpg][Image: march_april.jpg]

Based on the diptych alone I'd say the enigmatic chest harness was purely symbolic of one's rank, much like the old 'Herculean Knot' from classical times. The emperor would hardly need such a harness to fasten an ill-fitting cuirass since his was no doubt tailor-made. And, IMO, fabric seems to make more sense since we often see harnesses adorned with elaborate motifs.

~Theo
Thanks! The first is convincing. The second (moasic), hmm... is that a harness or a tray in his hand? OK, maybe its a harness but the details leave something to be desired.
-Rick
___

Based on the diptych alone I'd say the enigmatic chest harness was purely symbolic of one's rank, much like the old 'Herculean Knot' from classical times. The emperor would hardly need such a harness to fasten an ill-fitting cuirass since his was no doubt tailor-made. And, IMO, fabric seems to make more sense since we often see harnesses adorned with elaborate motifs.

~Theo
Hi Rick,

Quote:Thanks! The first is convincing. The second (moasic), hmm... is that a harness or a tray in his hand? OK, maybe its a harness but the details leave something to be desired.
-Rick

If it's a tray, how is he holding his spear - between two fingers?
Quote:The second (moasic), hmm... is that a harness or a tray in his hand? OK, maybe its a harness but the details leave something to be desired.
-Rick___

The color of the band seems to match part of the strange kilt the soldier wears. And, like the kilt, it has a dark edging to it. Therefore, I'd say they're probably the same material - either leather or fabric.

If it is a harness it seems to be rather unique in that it has no shoulder straps. It could perhaps represent an embryonic form of the 'Varangian bra.'

~Theo
Did anyone from the UK get a chance to see the exhibition "Byzantium 330 – 1453" at the Royal Academy of Arts and look at the sword blade close up? Was the sabre / paramerion exhibited as well?
I was wondering how effective were the Byzantine Klibanophoroi? (In battle)
Reading Leo the Deacon, they seemed to be quite effective against the Rhos infantry. If they still existed in the mid-11th century, they did not make much of a difference in the various wars of the period, though. There were probably not many of them, so that obviously limits their effectiveness.
Thank you for the info (BTW what were Rhos infantry like?) and afaik they were around in the mid eleventh century and they are mentioned around 1110 and as you said their wern't that many of them Nikephoros Phokas usually had only six hundred of them
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43