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Quote:http://www.geocities.com/egfroth/Dscf0171.jpg

This is from another of your posts, although it is still not the image I was thinking about, I can see a 'trend' as such, a similarity in design or evolution as such! Still wish I could find the other image! :?

Trouble is, that is very definitely a hole in the armour - you can see the mail of the hauberk through it!

The other examples I know of are uncertain in interpretation, but that one is a hole!
Gioi there were several images that Nikos used to create this Varangian.
I agree with Tim Dawson's opinion. Troops tent to be more practical than civilians.
From personal experience I know that is good to have metal helmets covered a much as possible in heat. Some friends told me it applies even to modern composite ballistic helmets.
Quote:...It comes from a post of yours farther back!

http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000555yx.jpg

And this comes from the very next post!

That's an interesting picture, and i supposed that armour of that type may have been worn by the Mongols when they invaded the Middle East in the 13th century and may even have been the ancestor of the Turkish "krug". However if the Byzantines had worn armour of this type it would have been in the late 14th and 15th centuries, so very late in their history. Smile

Any feedback on the possibility of the Byzantines using "Kipchaq-style" masked helmets?
Perhaps these are the images you are thinking of Gaius

http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/his ... rrior.html

http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/his ... iors1.html

They are from Manasija monastery in Serbia. The Turks burnt it down in 1456 so these frescos are later than that.
Gioi,
I was wrong about the date. Apparently these were preserved frescoes from about 1418:

http://www.rastko.org.yu/isk/images/warriors.html

Cheers
There are 15th century engravings showing gambesons (Byzantine Kambadio) that are stitched vertically in a manner that reminds pteryges.
It is a good posibility that some hagiographies are not "unrealistic".
Kind regards
In November 2005, workers digging on the Bosphorus Tunnel Project at Yenkapi discovered an ancient harbor of Byzantium, now known as the Theodosian harbour which included a Byzantine ship with an intact skeleton, the oldest ship discovered in such condition. The Theodosian harbour is believed to be an expansion of an earlier port known as the Eleutherion port. In source materials, both names are used interchangeably. The Yenikapi excavations just keep getting better. The dig teams have exposed a long section of the city wall from the days of Constantine I In January 2006 we got excited that seven sunken ships had been found buried in the mud – one being an 11th century warship. Then by July of that year the tally was eight. In September the ninth was announced. At last count there were 23 shipwrecks, including the first Byzantine galleys ever found. It may, some say, be the greatest nautical archaeological site of all time. Cargoes, ropes leather work and a mountain of other things are being uncovered. There are 1,000-year-old ships rigging ropes in perfect condition, preserved in silt. There are huge forged iron anchors, viewed as so valuable in medieval Byzantium they were highly prized items in the dowries of the daughters of the wealthy. The site has grown into the largest archaeological dig in Istanbul's history.

From the 4th Century section of the dig the archeologists have found leather sandals and around a thousand candle-holders and hairbrushes.

An interesting article appears here:

BYZANTINE SHIPWRECKS OF YENIKAPI PROJECT:
http://www.woam2007.nl/Programme-Icom-woam.pdf

A more generic article is to be found in Archaeology Magazine Volume 60 Number 4, July/August 2007

http://www.archaeology.org/0707/abstracts/istanbul.html

Has anyone found any published photos or other articles?
Quote:Has anyone found any published photos or other articles?

Here are photos from the dig site
http://www.marmaray.com.tr/yenikapi_arkeolojik_21.html
Is it too early to have some art impression of reconstructions?

Kind regards
I REALLY hope they have enough funds for a proper conservation of all those ships. That's a HELL of a lot of wet timber!
Thanks Laran they are great.
Quote:Thanks Laran they are great.
You are welcome. Smile

Some info on the ships.
Reportedly, these ships are from transitional period between 'shell-first' and 'skeleton-first' periods. In this respect, these finds are said to be particularly valuable. After photographing and drawing, they are taken to special conservation laboratories. Also, 3D models of the ships are done using Photo Modeller method. Later, they plan to make and display replicas. They also plan to send wood samples to Israel in order to establish which region the wood belongs to, so where the ships could have been constructed.
In response to the discussion concerning accuracy of hagiographical depictions, one can be certain that many such images display a shockingly high degree of accuracy, especially in the period after c. 1200 when they seem to show more detail.
On the flip side, you can't just take them at face value either, as many also are highly stylized and exhibit inaccuracies as well. These sources (Saints' Lives and of course others) are one of those "double-edged" primary sources where one must wade through the evidence.

Just my two cents.
Some photos of Marmaray Project excavations in Istanbul, from ArkeoAtlas magazine.
These are remains of two ships (nicknamed Yenikapi II and Yenikapi IV), believed by the experts to have been the galea type oared vessels, used for military purpose. Their original length was at least 25 metres. Dated 10 c. AD.

[Image: yenikapiivwb5.th.jpg] [Image: yenikapiiiayz6.th.jpg] [Image: yenikapiiibbn1.th.jpg]
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