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Steven thanks for the link. It seems that "hungarian attire" existed in the 11th century. I still have reservations if it was a Bulgarian style though.

I agree with Robert's comment.
Usually "military" emperors are described by chroniclers as "averse to luxury " which lead us to assume that their war gear was good quality but not "fancyful".

Kind regards
The book is The Eastern Romans 330-1461 AD By Raffaele D'Amato and Giorgio Albertini - put out by Concord Publications: http://www.concord-publications.com/6011/6011.htm . They are a Hong Kong based publisher catering for the military modelling and wargamer market they service through a sister company Universal Models Ltd. (UML). See their history here: http://www.universal-models.com/

I have to agree with Egfroth about the captured Bulgar. The emperors costume is also taken straight from the Menologion of Basil II as well. While I am unfamiliar with the mace form he carries the Toufa of peacock feathers is straight from the front of the Troyes casket. The horse furniture is taken from the Bamberg silk. In my opinion the vexillum with the Taxiarch Michael is perfect but the two Rus helmets are a worry. Stefanos is correct, the Alexander Nevsky helmet is usually dated to 1300 and the Iaroslav helmet is about a century later as well (See http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisand ... elmets.htm )

The first plate is a little disconcerting also. The Greek hemiolite is taken from the 11th C version of the Kynegetica Gr Z 479 fol 33r where he bears an identical mace. In the Kynegetica this figure portrays the God Ares who dwells at Mt Haemus in Thrace – which the Byzantines, using their atticising Greek, identified with the Bulgars and therefore he is dressed in a Bulgar hat (which appears many times in the Skylitzes manuscript also) and Bulgar jacket.

The identification of the figure from the enamel with a “ Varangianâ€
Oops. Forgot the link to the Troyes casket.

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/m ... 2955_p.jpg
Robert most of the 4th -5th century heleets do not seem to fit in the era.
Do you agree?

Professor D´Ammatto is very knowlegable about Byzantion but I am of the imprssion that the publisher wanted to increase sales with impressive artwork.

Aftet seing Steven's link I started changing opinion on Bulgarian attire.

Silk was in the means of Varrangian officers but that type of "arming cup" does not convince me.

A shield with Ravens appeared in the Notitia Dignitarum. It is just an educated guess that the raven was kept as regimental badge.
After all Pselos calls the Varangians "Gotthoi" Goths.
I will check your article for more commnets Steven.

Tim Dawson has a very good site with a wealth of info and helped me alot with my Varangian and Latinikon articles.
His site is here: http://www.levantia.com.au/

Kind regards
wooo!!! Comerus Gallus!!! Very nice picture. I have never seen this images. Thank! Ok some strange items like the helmets but really fine artworks!
Quote:
hoplite14gr:2br6mzbq Wrote:Robert most of the 4th -5th century heleets do not seem to fit in the era.
Do you agree?
His silence say more than a 100 words :lol: ... I know he saw the plates 100 of time after I post them...PS: perhaps he was wating for your opinion....

No no no, :lol: I had missed them until now..

Nice plates, but the artist loves purple and gold colours - not to mention everybody has peacock feather helmets!!

Yes, some helmets are definately incorrect, although older 3rd c. types could survive into the 4th c. (I doubt whether the Praetorians would still have these older types though). I have great doubts about these helmets with metal 'feathers' though. I know they're based on the 'supposed' Cornuti from the Constantinian Arch, but these reconstructions look more like samurai helmets instead of Roman ones. Too fanciful.

Wasn't Gainas killed by the Huns? Not some peacock-feathered Roman, surely?
hoplite14gr, the same style of oufit also appears on a Bulgarian Khan in the Skylitzes Chronicle of Madrid (see attachment).

I believe the peacock crown is based, not so much on the Troyes casket, as on the 10th century "Bamberg" silk tapestry mentioned by Peter above. It shows just such a crown being presented to an Emperor by a crowned woman. I've added an attachment - it's not very clear unfortunately. I have a better one somewhere, in colour - which shows the peacock details very well - but I can't lay my hands on it at the moment. You can see it at http://www.doaks.org/EconHist/EHB17.pdf but still in black and white. If and when I can find a colour copy I'll postit here.

The raven shield is based upon an 11th century ikon - see the top figure at http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/IkonSoldiers.html

The earliest mention I've ever seen of the "Ikon Centurion = Varangian" is in the Osprey book "Byzantine Armies 866-1118", and from reading the Osprey text I believe this is where the idea originated. It's certainly not in "The Varangians of Byzantium".

I'm not all that fond of the illustrator's artistic style, but hey, that's just me.
That would make sense Egfroth as the earliest I've ever seen a mention of the "Ikon Centurion = Varangian" was Ian Heath, Armies of the Dark Ages 600-1066, Second Edition, Wargames Research Group, 1980 ( the first edition came out in 1976 I believe) and he also wrote both Osprey title - Byzantine Armies 886–1118 and Byzantine Armies AD 1118–1461.

Thanks for remembering the toufa in the Bamberg silk.
Hi folks.
Giorgio Albertini is a friend of Raffaele D'Amato and a professional illustrator based in Milan. I had the pleasure of meeting him there in his studio.

Quote:Nice plates, but the artist loves purple and gold colours - not to mention everybody has peacock feather helmets!!

Quote:Yes, some helmets are definately incorrect, although older 3rd c. types could survive into the 4th c. (I doubt whether the Praetorians would still have these older types though). I have great doubts about these helmets with metal 'feathers' though. I know they're based on the 'supposed' Cornuti from the Constantinian Arch, but these reconstructions look more like samurai helmets instead of Roman ones. Too fanciful.

Quote:Professor D´Ammatto is very knowlegable about Byzantion but I am of the imprssion that the publisher wanted to increase sales with impressive artwork.

Quote:The advisor of this artist sucks.
Quote:Sloppy research in my opinion


I saw some of the original paintings as they were being painted. They are at a much smaller scale than I would work at, Albertini obviously has better eyesight than me and they are filled with an incredible amount of detail!

Like me Albertini would have been given masses of reference material from Raffaele himself but unlike me would have done exactly what Raffaele told him to do! He would have been very insistent on costume detail and facial characteristics and is far more demanding than anyone else I have ever worked for.

The amount of work Raffaele spends on his research is both incredible and time consuming and as someone pointed out you are not paid for that, you are also expected to supply the artist with what he needs in the case of Raffaele that would amount to about three A4 packed folders worth, plus you have to provide all the photographs often paying extortionate rates for the use of some museum images. If you break even when you get paid it is a miracle and that goes for what the artist does too. The wonder is that anyone bothers to do such work at all!

Raffaele was working on the Concord book well before we started on our Osprey book and it was only completed after we had finished! The Publishers must have been very, very understanding and patient is all I can say!

Graham.
Steven as I posted before I am convinced about the use of "hungarian jacket" by 11th century Bulgarians based on the evidence you showed.

Peter is right on the first popular Varangian art impression was Ian Heath, but in "Armies of the Crusades". Angus Mc Bright followed with "Byzantine Armies 886–1118" and "Viking Hersir" In the 1st title there was a black/white sketch of the centurio with the raven but no reference.

So we have to thank Steve for http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/IkonSoldiers.html .
Ian Heath used it for inspiration I guess in "Armies of the Crusades"


Graham thank you for pointing out "...nyone bothers to do such work at all! "
I too am aware that M. D Ammato is very knowlegable but I still belive the "publisher connection".

The earlist appearence of the raven in Roman service is on the shield of "Constandimani" if Ospreys Romano-Byzantine armies got it correct from Notisia Dignitarum.

OK you cannot please every one! That is the only truth.

I rest my case.
Quote:These guys may well represent Maniakes Army in Italy

The knight may also be lombard (Arduin?)
Yes some Berbers claim descent from Normans or even Vandals.

The Varangian is reconstructed from an icon in German private collection.
The original is in the site of our good friend "egfroth".
I have my doubts about the headgear that it is asociated with "Jews" in Byzantine Art.

Kind regards


Dear All,
Although many engaged in the Greenhill book, I have seen that I have to do some precisations about the comments on my book.
The plate did not represent the Maniakes Army but the army of Isaac Komnenos in 1057 AD, following the description of Psellos: they warriors represent Tauro-Schytians (Varangians), Italians (lombard and Normans) and Greeks, as described by Psellos.
The warrior with painted face is from the famous statuette of the piece's chess preserved in the Cabinet of Medailles in Paris, dated at the XI cent. AD. Some authors claim it a Italo-Norman, others a Roman warrior of the Katapanatos. In anycase is a italian warrior of XI cent. in lands under the control or influence of Byzantium.
The Varangian officer is copied by the cloisonné enamel in Residenz Munchen Munchen Museum. It is dated by Schlumberger at the X cent., by Wessel at XI cent. and by Nicolle at XII cent.
The headgear is usually associated with the figures of the Hekatontarchoi in East-Roman art. Usually he represents Longinos, a Roman officer and not a jew. Jews receive sometimes similar headcovers, but fastened and covering the heads in different way. Moreover jews are never armed.
Best wishes
Raffaele
Quote:I meant the Varangian's headgear Gioi.

It is "VOULGAROKTONOS" = Bulgarslayer not Bulgar-chewer

The advisor of this artist sucks.

The fancy peacock feathers come from the casket though to represent Justinian. Heavy speculation if Vasilios wore them-he was averse to luxury.

The standard bearer wears the "Kremlin helmet" which is dated roughly 200 years later.

The "spatharios" holding the reigns should be wearing white and purple

The captured boyar's attire is more 16th century rather than early 11th and it looks very "hungarian".

Sloppy research in my opinion

Kind regards


About it.
I am sorry to say it, because I am not an arrogant person, and also if I do not agree with the most part of the Osprey, I respect the works of the others.
I have however the idea that You have to suck some artistical, literary and archaeological sources more about Byzantium.
The fancy peacock feathers does not come from any casket, neither exist a casket though to represent Justinian. Maybe You are confusing the still existing drawing of the Justinian statue which stood in Augustaion, wearing the so called Achilles armour and crown with the Toupha, preserved in the Budapest Library. Here it is a crown, with peackock feathers, not a helmet.
But for the toupha of Vasilios II we have used the Bamberg silk, as shown by Egfroth. The personification on the left of the silk wears a crown-helmet, the so called Kamelaukion, as You can read in the book of Pilz about the argument.
Vasilios wore it in his triumph over the Bulgarians, like stated by Kedhrenos and Skilitzès. The Bamberg silk was realized just to celebrate such a triumph. But in the book it is written.
The helmet of the Euthychophoros is copied by the Cremlin one: the existence of such helmets at the time of Vasilios is attested not only by the codes (Psalter 17 of Marciana and many others) but also by the specimen from South Crimea, published by the Kiprchnikov and coming from an area under the control of Byzantium. The only speculative thing is the decoration of the helmet, i.e. if such decoration already existed in 11th cent. AD. Considering that such decoration are already present on helmets from 6th cent. onwards, I have preferred to use it.
The "Spatharios" is not a spatharios. In the book is written. He is the Domestikos ton Scholon, and he is copied from the Joshua of the Menologion of Basil II. The colours of the Menologion correspond exactly to the garments described for him in the Ceremony Book. Also it is written in the book.
Joshua, in the representation of the East-Roman art, is generally represented as the military commander of the whole army. So the armour and the appearance of the Domestikos was often used to represent him by the artists.
The Bulgarian Boyar is copied exactly how he is represented in the Menologion of Basil II. As You know it was done in 1003 AD. The existence of Kaftan like this is already attested centuries before in the Moscevaja Balka graves. And confirmed by the archaeology of the Bulgarian graves, where pair of buttons have been found in couple and disposed in rows. Not only Bulgarian, but generally Slav and Russian also.
What You call a sloppy research is a research of weeks and weeks just only for one subject
But You can free to think what You like of course.
Best wishes
Raffaele
Quote:Steven thanks for the link. It seems that "hungarian attire" existed in the 11th century. I still have reservations if it was a Bulgarian style though.

I agree with Robert's comment.
Usually "military" emperors are described by chroniclers as "averse to luxury " which lead us to assume that their war gear was good quality but not "fancyful".

Kind regards

Dear,
Also them have to submit to the protocol sometimes. Especially in a Empire as that of Byzantium, where the Pump of the Ceremony was the every day and the image of The Emperor the Image of God surrounded by the Heavenly Court
Best wishes
Raf
Peter Raftos\\n[quote]The book is The Eastern Romans 330-1461 AD By Raffaele D'Amato and Giorgio Albertini - put out by Concord Publications: http://www.concord-publications.com/6011/6011.htm . They are a Hong Kong based publisher catering for the military modelling and wargamer market they service through a sister company Universal Models Ltd. (UML). See their history here: http://www.universal-models.com/

I have to agree with Egfroth about the captured Bulgar. The emperors costume is also taken straight from the Menologion of Basil II as well. While I am unfamiliar with the mace form he carries the Toufa of peacock feathers is straight from the front of the Troyes casket. The horse furniture is taken from the Bamberg silk. In my opinion the vexillum with the Taxiarch Michael is perfect but the two Rus helmets are a worry. Stefanos is correct, the Alexander Nevsky helmet is usually dated to 1300 and the Iaroslav helmet is about a century later as well (See http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisand ... elmets.htm )

The first plate is a little disconcerting also. The Greek hemiolite is taken from the 11th C version of the Kynegetica Gr Z 479 fol 33r where he bears an identical mace. In the Kynegetica this figure portrays the God Ares who dwells at Mt Haemus in Thrace – which the Byzantines, using their atticising Greek, identified with the Bulgars and therefore he is dressed in a Bulgar hat (which appears many times in the Skylitzes manuscript also) and Bulgar jacket.

The identification of the figure from the enamel with a “ Varangianâ€
Quote:Robert most of the 4th -5th century heleets do not seem to fit in the era.
Do you agree?

Professor D´Ammatto is very knowlegable about Byzantion but I am of the imprssion that the publisher wanted to increase sales with impressive artwork.

Aftet seing Steven's link I started changing opinion on Bulgarian attire.

Silk was in the means of Varrangian officers but that type of "arming cup" does not convince me.

A shield with Ravens appeared in the Notitia Dignitarum. It is just an educated guess that the raven was kept as regimental badge.
After all Pselos calls the Varangians "Gotthoi" Goths.
I will check your article for more commnets Steven.

Tim Dawson has a very good site with a wealth of info and helped me alot with my Varangian and Latinikon articles.
His site is here: http://www.levantia.com.au/

Kind regards

Dear,
The helmets used in the two plates are exactly that of the figures from which they are taken.
The attic typology, far to be for the Late-Empire a artistical convention, is represented on different types on the Constantine arch. One is that of the Praetorians of Maxentius, that interestingly correspond to the Preatorian figures represented on the Piazza Armerina mosaics (the coloured version of the Milvius Bridge version on the Constantine Arch freeze). They represent to be a late Version, with metallic crest, of the Guisborough typology. Late Pseudo_Attic helmets like these are attested in the archaeological finds, but of course not all of them are still published and exposed
The Cornuti on the Constantine freeze are represented with a wider version of the Attic typology, already visible on many monuments of the 3rd century. The small horns, that I have add to the helmet, are copied as regimental badge from it. They are visible on the Constantine Arch.
The helmet of the Cataphracts is the Dura version with the add of the Claudianus description about colours and peackock feathers for the cataphracts of the Imperial guard. The helmet of the Via Latina cataphract is the Hedderneim one, as it is represented on the paintings and on the Constantine Arch, where it is used by the Legio Minervia milites fighting for Maxentius.
The helmet of the Guardsman in the Gainas plate is the helmet II from Richborough: in leather with metallic application. It corresponds to the helmets of the Guardsmen from Theodosius or Arkadius column. The helmet of the Goth is that from the original found in Mosa valley.
The masked helmet of the Cataphract is from 3rd cent. specimens, because cataphracts with such armour and masked helmets are represented on the fragments of the same column. The mask is the unique 4th cent. specimen from Serbia.

The artist follows my instructions in anything. I just followed, by the application of the archaeology, the instructions that the Roman artists gave me. They are the most thrustable

Best wishes

Raffaele
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