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Anonymous

Hi Robert,<br>
<br>
thanks for uploading the pictures of the "newfound" soldier's tombstone from Houten; can you (or the other Dutchmen around) give any further details about the exact findspot and -circumstances? Is there any publication yet other than the expected newspaper articles?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Martin <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/umagisternavis.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Magister Navis</A> at: 3/28/02 2:55:29 am<br></i>
Let me add my thanks too Robert! Finally a look at that new I Cohors Classica tombstone, yippeee!<br>
As to the finds circumstances, according to the newspaper articles on the net it was found by an amateur archaeologist on a heap on sand (!!!) near a building site in Houten. An archaeologist of the Free University of Amsterdam (VU) dated it to 25-50 AD.<br>
Wouldn't know about any publication, the stone was found in 2000. What's the backlog of the AE? <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
The gravestone was found by mr. Elberse in the side of a tunnel for cyclists hich was dug under the Utrecht-Den Bosch railway in Houten. I have pictures of the findspot, it was very close to a site now built over with modern offices, but where once stood a Roman villa of which remnants of the wall-decoration have been found. Houten had several of such villas, the foundations of one now re-created in the street pavement, which show that the 8th-c. church shows the same alignment. the Gravestone may have been re-used during the Middle Ages as well, or even during late Roman times.<br>
<br>
Mr. Elberse, an amateur archaeologist, was busy looking at the site when the diggers had finished, and noticed a discolorisation in the sand of the tunnel wall. He then proceede to look further, mde his discovery and took the stunning find home. A year later ( and a year ago) the price was set at about $10.000, one half going to the finder, who relinquished his find to the Council, who owns 50% of the find.<br>
<br>
Personally, I think it's stunning. As a historian, living in such an area is very gratifying, even if we do not have such remains as other countries do.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <br>
<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm <p></p><i></i>

Guest

Salve,<br>
<br>
That varies a bit, but some three to four years is not far off the mark.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>

Guest

Salve,<br>
<br>
The origin of the soldier (<i> F(oro) | Iul(i)i</i>) for a soldier belonging to a <i> cohors classica</i> is interesting given the naval origin for such cohorts. Are there other such origins known that indicate matches for <i> cohortales</i> with (former) naval bases?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
Yes, Cohors I Classica originated in the fleet detachment at Forum Iulii. Possibly the first unit raised there was a Cohors Nautarum or Nauticorum. This may be the forerunner of the Cohors I Classica as inscriptions of this unit are very rare, early and located IIRC in the neighbourhood of Nice. The unit may later have been renamed to Classica and was temporarily named Aelia Classica during its stay in Britain in the 2nd quarter of the 2nd century, presuming these units are indeed the same.<br>
The other 'naval' cohors, Cohors II Classica (Sagittaria), possibly raised in Forum Iulii too, but might have originated in Syria too. It is simply not known. <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>

Guest

Salve,<br>
<br>
The <i> sagittaria</i> epithet I noticed some time ago while checking some diploma a time ago. Are there any indications that the navy had its own archers within its ranks (in Athens IIRC there were supposedly a couple of bowmen in addition to the complement of hoplite marines) or is this, which appears more likely, the result of conversion to archers at a later point?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
Your recollection about Athens is correct, archers served on Athenian triremes. I however do not know of any structural party of archers on board of Roman warships. Somewhere in Pliny's NH it is stated that ships in the Red Sea on course for India had archers on board, but this was private shipping and protection from pirates.<br>
The epithet in this case is probably the result of a conversion, it's not on all inscriptions and missing on the earliest known (of only two) diplomata naming this unit. <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>
sander,<br>
<br>
Would the origin of this unit still reflect on the present function of the cohort? I mean, his grave is very close to the Fectio fort, which had a harbour. Although the unit in residence seems to have been a Thracian Ala, I think we could suggest that it may have held part of a fleet detachtment as well. Could our soldiers have ended up here as a Marine?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert <p></p><i></i>
Hi Robert,<br>
If you don't mind me replying<br>
Classica probably refers to the origin, nothing else. After the Battle of Actium, Augustus transferred the usable part of Anthony's fleet to Forum Iulii on the southern coast of France. It's unsure exactly when, but most likely before 1 AD, the squadron was disbanded. At that time sailors/soldiers who still had time to serve were transferred into an army unit and served as any other. The fact that they were located near a harbour is not very surprising, in all probability nearly all units were stationed near harbours for logistical reasons.<br>
I'd love to state this was a unit of marines, but I'm afraid it isn't so. 'Classica' simply means 'fleet-' or 'naval' and if the Cohors Nauticorum was indeed the predecessor of this unit, that would just strengthen the argument against it, because this title implies that simply all leftover sailors, marines and rowers were collected in that unit. <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>

Guest

Salve,<br>
<br>
Jasper is the naval expert, I am into the dry stuff.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
A last update on the Houten tombstone: I checked and it is indeed located in the entrance of the Town Hall. Anyone visiting has free acces to it. The Houten council is dispaying all kinds of archeological finds there as well, a nice touch I think.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm<br>
<p></p><i></i>
According to a newspaper online, an archaeologist of the Free University of Amsterdam dated this tombstone to about 40AD, but the Cohors I Classica is supposed to only have come to Germania after the Batavian revolt and then first to Cologne. Only in Domitian's reign was it transferred to the Vleuten/De Meern. (see Alföldy, Hilfstruppen). <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Got an email from the archaeologist from Amsterdam.<br>
He said the identification to I Classica is not sure at all. (Of course seeing the reconstruction, that's no surprise). He's just probably from Gaul (a.o. from Forum Iulii, Probus is Latin, but possibly Celtic (thanks Sander)) so could also be from one of the other Gallic cohorts.<br>
The inscription is dated to the mid 1st century CE because there seem to be no other tombstones with busts from later periods in the general area.<br>
An article will be published in a Dutch journal in the Fall. <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ujasperoorthuys.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Jasper Oorthuys</A> at: 4/22/02 8:10:41 pm<br></i>