RomanArmyTalk

Full Version: New Site for Mons Graupius
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.

antiochus

The story is about a new location for Mons Graupius

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-...e.21105032
Just reading the headline and first line of the thread, I couldn't help thinking, "Hmm...what's wrong with the present location of the mountain? Do they know how much work it would be to move one?" :lol:
Quote:Touted locations include Perthshire, to the north of the River Dee, while other historians have suggested it may have taken place in Kincardineshire or even Bennachie in Aberdeenshire.

even Bennachie! Whatever will they think of next?... :grin:


Quote:Key to his discovery was his reconstruction of a second century map to help him pinpoint the homeland of the Caledonian tribe.

Pretty hard to 'pinpoint' anything using Ptolemy's vague coordinates, surely? And Tacitus uses 'Caledonia' to mean the entire north end of Britain (as in 'the tribes inhabiting Caledonia'), so locating the specific northern tribe referred to by Ptolemy would not be of any use in locating the battle.

Plus why would a Roman fort signify a battle site? A marching camp would be more appropriate.
I think as Nathan has said a marching camp would be much more to the point than a later Roman Fort, but then of course if you have to house 30,000 men in the area there should be maybe a few more large marching camps around and about it.
Then also as far as Ptolemy's map things are realy vague for some one has even used the Roman fort of Whitley Castle to be the Epiacum of that map, and where they have got that from I would love to know.
Quote:Then also as far as Ptolemy's map things are realy vague for some one has even used the Roman fort of Whitley Castle to be the Epiacum of that map, and where they have got that from I would love to know.
It goes back to Rivet & Smith, Place-Names of Roman Britain (1979), Brian, where they suggested that it was "probably the Roman fort at Whitley Castle", on the basis (I would guess -- they don't say) that Ptolemy lists it as the northernmost polis of the Brigantes. Some caution should have been advised, as Whitley Castle appears to be an Antonine fort (and late Antonine, at that), whereas Ptolemy's source is normally assumed (on good grounds) to have been Flavian. Earlier researchers had put Epiacum at Ebchester, which at least appears to have been a Flavian foundation, but (by the time of the Antonine Itinerary, at least) Ebchester was pretty certainly called Vinovia. (Epiacum doesn't figure in the AI.)
Duncan.
I do remember that my late friend Raymond Selkirk had his own theory that Epiacum was indeed Hexham, this does in fact line up with his 255 line frontier and also another road leaving Ebchester that also lines up on Hexham.
It is of course interesting that all the evidence there is for the Ala Petriana in fact comes from Hexham, and it is a more important and larger town than Corbridge and was the Middle March capital throughout history along with Alnwick and Carlisle as the east and west marches.
eh oh.. I feel another 'Calling all armchair generals' discussion emerging... :lol:
Personally, having spent much time there, I still feel Benachie is the best candidate, it fits the mental image given by Tacitus to the T. Apart from the 'Easily visible from the Sea' point..... :-? :unsure:
I was a visitor at Ribchester museum last year and bought a book by Duncan B Campbell phD titled, Mons Graupius Rome's battle at the edge of the world.
It gives the mountain of Bennachie as the most likely spot because appropriate size marching camps were found en route, also the profile of Bennachie and the spacious terrain about it suit the description of Tacitus.
The only missing element is recovery of equipment and weapons, but there have been no such finds anywhere else either.Maybee someone will follow that up?

The source was published by Osprey; ISBN 978-1-84603-926-3.
Duncan, what is your thouhgts on the 'visible from the sea element?

I have not been on a boat off there to see myself, usually flying north in chopper, so it's hard to tell.
Quote:Duncan, what is your thouhgts on the 'visible from the sea element?
On a clear day, you can see the coast from the lower slopes of Bennachie, so I guess the reverse is probably true also.
Thanks, thats the clincher for me then. It totally fits the mental image I have of the battle.
Quote:Just reading the headline and first line of the thread, I couldn't help thinking, "Hmm...what's wrong with the present location of the mountain? Do they know how much work it would be to move one?" :lol:
well David you just need to belive is not much i would say
The archaeologist, as he's referred to in the papers, who is making the claim is actually an energy sector researcher and UKIP's first Scottish spokesman. You can read more detail of his reasoning, in his own words, here.

More detailed, but no more likely to convince. His evidence includes some extremely convoluted place-name manipulation, and the Sueno Stone in Forres.
Quote:The archaeologist, as he's referred to in the papers, who is making the claim is actually an energy sector researcher and UKIP's first Scottish spokesman.
UKIP being the UK Independence Party.

I agree with your assessment, the ground on which this theory rests is too boggy. Mons Graupius becoming 'Scroggy' is not what your local etymologist would prescribe. :twisted: