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Yes I can show you some pictorial,archeological examples of ridge style helmets from post-roman period,only not directly Intercisa.I was only referring to Ridge type helmets not Intercia.But some of those I have on mind,are very likely more or less evolved from intercisa type.
This deserve more space and time to answer properly and with pictorials samples I Had yet to collect,but for now it's time what I don't I've already mentioned I need to learn latin to pass my exams.But it would not be too long when I'm back in this discussion :wink:.
Pavel the Old King must be always at the first place! One of my Latin theachers told told us: before translating, read the Latin text two or three times, you'll start to understand the meaning...and then translate. Well, not always, but many time it worked! Confusedmile:

Waiting for Pavel, here my last unorthodox effort, titled:

"Unfortunate Heroes. Milvian Bridge 312 AD."

[Image: PretorianofMaxentius.jpg]

This unfortunate man belongs to the Pretorian Guard of Maxentius (that the True Greek-Roman Gods protect His memory!), he wears the classic scale armor of the Pretorians and his shield is the pretorian shield with scales depicted on it (drawing the scales on the shiled has been like an Horror Movie! Terrible! sorry for the result!), our man wears a padded linen subarmalis under the scale suit, and hold a semi-spatha (if I depicted it in the wrong way, please tell me, I'll correct it!) and a pilum, but the most important detail is this one: The Pretorian wears an Attic Helmet, copied from the reliefs of the Arch of Constantine and from a model built by a fantastic Italian Architect (like me!) and reenactor called Stefano Mattesini, the pic of the Attic helmet is published on a beautiful book (with awesome paintings and drawings) titled: 'Le Legioni Romane. l'armamnto in mille anni di storia'.

Colonel Simon Macdowall wrote about the Attic helmets on the Arch of Constantinus:

'..probably another artistic convention, although it is likely that a differnt style of Attic Helmat was worn during the Late Roman period...'

So if Colonel Macdowall wrote that 'it's likely', who am I to disagree with one of my living legends? So here the Attic Helmet by Diocle.
I've already commented this on DeviantArt.So,here I only add that I never liked Constantine nor Maxentius.Of their contemporaries I admire emperors Galerius and Diocletian.
My nick is Diocle so you can imagine my thoughts about Diocletianus,....But I'm surprised by your choice of Galerius! Also I like and admire Galerius ..... but I thought being the only one in the world!

Pavel you are a good man!...and a great artist!

..or better: Pavel you're a gerat man and a great artist! Confusedmile: Yeah this one is better! Cool
I like how that Praetorian's head is hunched over.
Thanks FGC! While I was drawing the Pretorian I was thinking to the incoming charge of the Cataphracts of Constantinus, and probably this gave me the idea of this position of uneasy wait, ready to absorb the impact of the horses... I'm happy you noticed it!
I moved the rest of this discussion, which was going deep into the existance of the elusive Late Roman 'Attic' helmet, into another part of the forum:
Placeholder for this evening.

So what I did is I took some characteristics of the 2nd and 3rd centuries and put them together, and then put a bunch of close-ups of weapons and stuff around the drawing, like Angus McBride used to do.
I've just finished the guy with the strange Attic Helmet, I'm not satisfied, I tried many times to represent the helmet but my eyes in my mind weren't able to figure it out!
Probably when we speak of 'Artistic convention' we shold take into account that those with the most powerful artistic convention are ourselves! In fact I wasn't able to see how could be built a similar helmet, for me it's simply pure madness! Because probably my graphic imagination is conditioned by my 'Artistic convention' about the Romans....

Anyway, here he is, It's from the tombstone of Severuius Acceptus, I've found him for the first time on the Osprey books of Colonel Macdowall , but I add here the pic posted yesterday by Nathan Ross Optimus Maximus, so this is Severius in all its splendour:

[Image: SeveriusAcceptus.jpg]

The man is from the Legio V Macedonica for various reasons: the Late roman Attic helmet depicted in the Osprey Book of Colonel Macdowall is a beautifl illustration by Gerry embleton and the man wearing it belongs to the V! Colonel Macdowall wrote that probably, if these helmets ever existed, they were mainly used in the South and East of the Empire, then last but not the least, for me the V is 'The Legion' so... when I think to a Roman Legion I see immediatly the Acanthus of the V.

We are in the second half of the III century, our man is a centurio of the Legio V Macedonica, he has the vitis and he wears a scale armor with a breast plate with a Gorgone head, he has leather greaves with lion heads on it, in the inner of the shiled the acanthus flower of the V (or at least that was my intention!), finally the helmet: This is the best I was able to create looking at the tombstone of Severius, the crest is of bronze and has an eagle on the top, this because I think that a Centurio could afford a good quality equipment and because the III century is the century of the Big Baroque Helmets! ;-)
IMHO the real shape of these Attic helmets was slightly different, but I'll give my personal verision later, in a new illustration, for now this is the work:

[Image: AtticHelmetmidIIICenturypainted.jpg]
A placeholder doesn't work if there's a post after it.

[Image: 2e7FYuV.jpg]

This man wears an Itallic-Style Helmet, one of the later ones, and has a Spiculum and scale armor. His tunic is white with blue stripes, and is a mix of principate and late roman in the pattern of the clavii (although you can't see it). The shield design is also a mix, showing late roman and principate era patterns. He carries a Spatha on his right hip, and has 2nd or 3rd century boots.
I don't draw, but am inspired at times to try lol! Here is my attempt at mid 4th Century Legionary. The sword is sitting too high, but otherwise he's all right. He's wearing a Berkasovo Type II helmet (like Augsburg).

Carlo,Evan,Marcus-It seems everyone is now drawing something,only I have nothing mine to add :grin:

Evan-An Osprey publishing illustration style.It is clear that you tried to combine old roman fashion with that who just begun to appear to finally replaced it during course of 4th century.But that Christogram is VERY controversial for a shield of 244 A.D.
Marcus:Not bad at all for a beginner.Helmet and belt are quite detailed.

Carlo:You are mad...but such helmet might theoretically worked.
- MMFA! I like your legionary! The pose is realxed and realistic, I like also the details but as said Amelianus, why the Christian symbol? OK! the Severian were tolerant but....there is a limit!

The monogram is only from Constantine, if you want a Christian symbol for this age maybe a stylized fish might be a good chice, do you know, the fish...'Ikthus': 'Iesus, Cristhos, Uios, Thugather Soter'...if I still remember correctly.

- Markus, good legionary, is he from the Prima Italica, the shield design reminds me that one of the frist Italic Legion, I like the choice.

- Pavel, I don't know in which way this helmet might work!

I still don't understand the shape of the metallic foil on the edge, how it could be curved on the sides, becoming almost horizontal!!!

I still don't understand how the metallic edge could be fixed on the helmet and I don't know how the crest worked, and I don't know if it was a single bowl or two halves united by the crest.....

You'll see my version, it's more simple and more ..... Frankish! So better! (and hated by all the Brits here! Muahahahahah! :grin: )
In palestine its liekly that a lot of members of the 6th were christians, I didn't know of any other monograms other than the Chi/Tau-Rho, so thanks guys.

Rusty owns the Image now, so I cannot change it.
Quote:In palestine its liekly that a lot of members of the 6th were christians, I didn't know of any other monograms other than the Chi/Tau-Rho, so thanks guys.

Rusty owns the Image now, so I cannot change it.

Great work MMFA, but here are few sybols, mainly the fish but also the anchor...

Here from where it came the fish symbol: The Greek word 'Icthus' or Jsus Christ Son of the Father':

[Image: christian-fish.gif]

Here few images from Internet of early Christian art:

[Image: sculpturegde.gif]

[Image: symbole_chretien.jpg]

[Image: Ichtus-gravure-sculpture-sur-pierre-galet.jpg]

The front cover of a nice book, (I've it) about early christian symbolism Confusedmile: :

[Image: 9782020287715.jpg]
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