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Hi

I am researching the late Roman armies pay for Comitatenses, Limitanei, Scholae and Foederati troops. Can anyone tell me a basic amount they were paid?
Hi Danyal.

Welcome to RAT.
We have a bit about pay in the late army on our website here:
http://comitatus.net/armylegionpt7.html

Best Wishes,
Hi Danyal,

Here's my view on ranks in the Late Roman army, with pay scales added.
http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/ranks.htm
Quote:Hi Danyal,

Here's my view on ranks in the Late Roman army, with pay scales added.
http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/ranks.htm

What about the annona? In my studies of the Fall of Africa in the Novella Val. show that in 445 the recorded losses from Mauretania and Numidia (Both of which were still Roman) equalled 218,000 Denarii, which equates 7/8 of the original production was gone. When I reversed this to determine troop losses (I believe the number was 36,800 Comitatensian Grade Infantrymen) the number was like, I think 6 solidi per man for infantry and for comitatensian cavalry 10 solidi per man. I think it's 30 solidi per annum total per infantryman (cant' remember my source on that will have to go back to TWC i have it written down in a debate). So you must account for actual pay too when looking at the pay scales.
Quote:So you must account for actual pay too when looking at the pay scales.
Have you read the article? It gives the amount of annonae (where possible) for each grade and rank.

Best look up that source of yours. I suppose that you can't equate the loss of annonae with the number of troops, because you don't know the amount of troops who received which amount of annonae. Only the pedites and equites (lowest ranks) recieved one annonae per annum, while a dux may have received 50 (not counting the capita).
I spend a long time on this question (20 000 words +) as part of my PHD dissertation on the emperor and military loyalty in the Late Roman Period. Hopefully I'll be able to make my discussion available sooner rather than later...

Sorry to be a tease...but it's coming.

Back to the grind...
That sounds like a very interesting piece to read!! Do tell us when it's ready! I'vr read bit here and there, but a specialist study would be very welcome. Sneak peak perhaps? :wink:
I meant Solidi per Annonae in the former post up there, wasn't thinking straight this medication doesnt work Tongue.

Some people put the amount per annona at 6 solidi per man and some at 30 solidi per man. I dont have access to TWC right now so I'll link yoiu when I get home i found the thread and stuff. Peter Heather mentions it was 6 solidi per man when he accounted the african troop loss, when I reworked the Troop loss I used 30 solidi per man and 6 solidi per man equations. Ill send you that link ASAP
Got it:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=427905

There's a lot of debate in this thread so I'll sift through it in a little bit.

And yes originally I used heather's book for the numbers but I have actual access to the novella val. now.
Quote:That sounds like a very interesting piece to read!! Do tell us when it's ready! I'vr read bit here and there, but a specialist study would be very welcome. Sneak peak perhaps? :wink:

Hey Robert,

I'm in the agonizing last six months of the whole thing. Depending on what day you ask me it's either a useful piece of work or it's going to fail miserably and follow me for the rest of my life.

I'm meant to submit in July and I may even post here in a panic on various things asking for help...LOL

I will definitely share the thing as wide as possible when I'm finished.
Thank you to all those who replied.

I think that the arverage soldier in the age of Diocletian earned a total annaul pay of 15400 Denarius in(301-305)and 1000 Denarius is 1 Solidus which gave a soldier about 15 Solidus a year.Now 7200 Nummus in (337-476 AD) is worth 1 Solidus, Which converts to 110880 Nummus of the late roman coin value (337-476 A.D)which converts to 15.4 Solidus per year.

I have not taken out the facts that the soldiers had costs or the fact that the soliders were paid less or more.

If anyone could help with this Covertion?
Quote:If anyone could help with this Covertion?
I think Treadgold used a convertion of solidi, numismae and annonae. But for which period do you want it exactly? Like modern exchange rates, this fluctuated over time you know.
Quote:I think that the arverage soldier in the age of Diocletian earned a total annaul pay of 15400 Denarius in(301-305)
A papyrus from Egypt* give the pay scales of troops in 299-300 as follows:

Legionaries - 600 denarii p/a
Auxiliaries - 400 denarii plus 200 denarii ration allowance p/a

Pat Southern notes that this pay was almost unchanged since Severus, and worth far less due to inflation. The big earner, especially under the Tetrarchy, was in donatives:

For the annual celebration of an Augustus:

Legionaries - 1250 denarii
Auxiliairies - 250 denarii

For the annual celebration of a Caesar:

Legionaries - 625 denarii
Auxiliaries - 125 denarii

With two Augusti and two Caesars, that means a legionary would be getting 3750 d per annum in donatives on top of basic pay, making 4350 denarii total.

* This info comes from Southern Late Roman Army (I don't know if there's a reference), and Stephenson Constantine: Unconquered Emperor, Christian Victor, who mentions the papyrus but prefers a 'bibliographic essay' to proper footnotes, meaning the exact reference is obscure...
Treadgold, Warren (1995): Byzantium and Its Army, 284-1081 (Stanford), p. 154

Under Diocletian, ordinary soldiers received 12000 denarii, the equivalent of 10 aurei and later 12 nomismata. A nomisma is the the same as a Solidus.
1 Nomisma would therefore have been 1.000 denarii.
As 16 nomismata apparently equalled 4 annonae, 1 annona would represent 4 nomismata.
1 annona = 4 nomismata = 4.000 denarii

During the 6th c., this would be different: 1 annona would be 5 nomismata.
Quote:Under Diocletian, ordinary soldiers received 12000 denarii
Confusedhock: That's twenty times the basic pay given by Southern and Stephenson (and others, I'd guess)...! What evidence does Treadgold give for this? I'd always thought that pay remained nearly the same throughout the third century, at about Severan levels, with assorted supplements...
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