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Hey I have a simple question...
For a scabbard, would you use brass ( matching color rivets) or copper ( maybe more authentic) rivets? And, I know a place where you can buy both in thin and thick rods. This would be helpful as much more variable length, but is that ok to use? Just hammer down the bit that sticks up.

Sam
Sam looking at the origonal fixings they are not rivets but nails, they look as if they are made from the same metal as the material that they are nailing ( brass or bronze ). But if the nails are not showing ie at the back, iron nails were probably used.Again some one may be able to confirm this Big Grin
Reagards Brennivs Big Grin
Hmm I see.
Well, thanks for the info Tony, but I'm not strictly going by the example there. In my pics of my progress it's a more traditional, not elaborate, but very simple pompeii chape, and rivets should be fine? If not, I can buy the thin brass rod, cut into short nail lengths, and file a sharp tip on the end. I can put in a vice and hammer in a head, and then use as nails. Same thing as nails right?! haha.
Sam
I'm a little puzzled about the distinction between a rivet and a nail. As I don't think the romans had draw plates they were both cut from sheet and heads hammered onto them? I have to admit I don't know how they got nice rounded rivet heads anyway, unless they had punch tools or some like forming tool.
Good point, but it's same with hob nails almost. Forged, or cast. Idk, but they did it for sure!
I have also seen just flat rivets, so that's why I was wondering...

Sam
Quote:I'm a little puzzled about the distinction between a rivet and a nail. As I don't think the romans had draw plates they were both cut from sheet and heads hammered onto them? I have to admit I don't know how they got nice rounded rivet heads anyway, unless they had punch tools or some like forming tool.

The difference between a rivet and a nail is that a rivet has to have it's some part of it's tail expanded to provide a permanent fixing (either by peening the buck tail on a through rivet or by expanding the body inside a blind hole).

They certainly had draw plates(there's one at Vindolanda) and the fact that some rivets are neatly domed indicates that they also had rivet setting tools similar to the one I use today for creating neatly domed rivets.
So if I were to have a brass or copper rod, and I found something or made, that could hammer a dome shape into it, I can use as a rivet? Or could be a nail with a sharp tip? I would maybe drill a smaller hole than the nail so it is a permanent fitting? Then, nail vs rivet?!
What is it you're fixing, a chape for a gladius scabbard?
Gladius scabbards aren't my thing (I make spatha scabbards for latter Imperial and Migration era weapons)but aren't they push fits, glued in place, possibly pinned from the back? I don't recall any that are rivetted all the way through from front to back through the edge of the scabbard.
Where Brennivs has mentioned nails I would refer to them as clenched rivets we do find that this type of fixing was used on many Roman dagger scabbards, where the ends were simply bent over after going thro' the front plate and the wood of the scabbard.
They were also used with scabbard chapes where we find that a single pin or if you like a nail would go in from the front of the chape, in fact the length of a scabbard may well have been just a bit longer than a blade so the point of the pin or nail would be going into solid wood at the end of the scabbard.
With sword scabbards such as the Fulham this has what may be considered as concealed rivets, this is where flat head rivets have been used.
However these rivets do not go thro' the whole guttering edge strips of the scabbard, the heads of these rivets are on the inside of the guttering at it's rear edge and hold the cross hangers at the back where the rivet ends are peened over at the rear of the scabbard.
This is a process where the scabbard frame is put together complete then the inner wood and leather case is slid into the scabbard frame afterwards.
Right I see, then some nails to secure the piece onto the scabbard? Also, any recommendations on my latest work Brian? I embossed the brass using a vice, a steel rod, a 4 lb hammer, and then a light 1 lb hammer with a balled part so I could hammer deeper into the metal as it concaved. Is it possible to punch into a half inch 30" strip of brass, seems to me too thick and I'll have to buy more 15" brass sheet, or find a wider 15" brass strip to be able to emboss the ridged found on most cross hangers. With a chisel for fine groves, and that steel rod, I am sure I can do the job!

Sam
Hi Sam.
I have sent you yet again another PM reply please let me know if you get it this time, this new PM system leaves a lot to be desired.
so I will do the concealed rivet way. The face of the rivet on the outside of the chape, are the heads rounded or just flat? I mean, I need to "pre" flatten a head, turn in over and put it inside the chape and flatten it down " conclealed way". Since I'm pre flattening one side I have the option for rounded or flat head... :S

Sam
Any idea for the thickness or brass or copper rod I need? And what's prefered, brass?
I don't mean to be rude but I need to know as my trip to get the stuff is soon :roll: :|