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Full Version: Celtic and Germanic names in German
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Somebody pointed out to me that in German, river names are male if they have, etymologically, a Celtic root and female if they have a Germanic root. And indeed, it is der Rhein, der Inn, der Main, but die Elbe, die Weser, die Oder, die Saale, and die Spree.

However, it is die Mosel and die Donau. Now the Mosel may be exceptional -the Treveri were often believed to be a Germanic tribe - but the Donau, being in the Celtic heartland, is another matter. This also applies for die Aare. Anyone any thoughts?

[size=85:2boxp4x5](Of course I've been whistling Die Wacht am Rhein for half an hour now - one of the few earworms that are actually beautiful.)[/size]
Where does it sat the Treveri were "German"?

Are they not within the confederation of the Belgae?
Many river names in Europe derive from the European proto-language, and thus were already in existance when the "Celts" or the "Germans" or the Romans came into contact with them. This might be such cases. See:
[url:flsk35q9]http://www.onomastik.com/gn_gewaessernamen.php[/url]
Quote:Where does it sat the Treveri were "German"?

Are they not within the confederation of the Belgae?

"St. Jerome wrote at the end of the 4th century in a comment to "the epistle of St Paul to the Galatians" that the Galatians (Turkey) spoke the same language as the Treveri, which is German (Comentarii in Epistolam ad Galatos, II:3.). Several Roman writers (Caesar, Strabo, Tacitus) mentioned the German origin of the Treveri."

and:

"At the time of Julius Caesar the entire territory of modern Belgium spoke a Germanic language which we can call proto-Flemish.

This is why:

“Treveri et Nervii circa adfectationem Germanicae originis ultro ambitiosi sunt, tamquam per hanc gloriam sanguinis a similitudine et inertia Gallorum separentur.”

This sentence was written by the Roman historian and chronicler Tacitus in his book “Germania” (Latin: De Origine et situ Germanorum). It is widely accepted that Tacitus obtained most of his knowledge about German tribes from hearsay, as he never wandered far beyond the Rhine border into Germania. The sentence above however tells us something about Germans from within the Roman Empire. So he must have got this information first hand. The sentence can be translated literary as follows: “The Treverians and Nervians affectionate to the highest level their German origin, they say the nobility of this blood separates them from any comparison with [the Gauls] and from the laziness of the Gauls.” In other words: both tribes didn’t like to be confused with Gauls. They were of German origin (but they didn't like to be called Germans either - this is mentioned elsewhere). According to them, Gauls lacked a sense of honour (not noble or serious enough) and were lazy."

This comes frim a link that you provided in another thread :wink: :
http://www.proto-english.org/l4.html
Ave,

I don't know the article for this river but I believe it is the only one in Germania that has the same name and spelling now that it had in antiquity. The NIDDA is a small stream near Frankfurt.

Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus aka Al
Hello.

Very big his probability Treveri for tribe's Germanic origin.It proves this that Indutiomarus is king's affinity/between them my ancestors/ Rajna on the another side of Vangiones they escape to this tribe. Vangiones tribe's Germanic origin.

They wrote about St. Jeromos higher up.Cotinus/Cotini name writes about a Celtic tribe. They spoke an identical language with the Treveri tribe.Few men know it, that the Cotini the last free Celtic tribe was in all Europe.The Cotini his areas later Germans living beside Rhine River only,Walloon settled.




Six Vallus family today lives on Cotinus area. :wink:
Quote:"St. Jerome wrote at the end of the 4th century in a comment to "the epistle of St Paul to the Galatians" that the Galatians (Turkey) spoke the same language as the Treveri, which is German (Comentarii in Epistolam ad Galatos, II:3.). Several Roman writers (Caesar, Strabo, Tacitus) mentioned the German origin of the Treveri."
However Galatians were Celtic speakers. For some place names and tribal names check this map: http://www.wales.ac.uk/resources/docume ... heEast.pdf
Quote:
Gorgon:1pq4elut Wrote:However Galatians were Celtic speakers.
Indeed. The quote is commonly used to draw attention to the survival of Celtic languages in Late Antiquity, not as proof that the Galatians spoke a Germanic language. Big Grin