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It is an old topic, but I cannot find it anymore.<br>
Anyway I noticed the look of his pugio (second image):<br>
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www.romanhideout.com/imag...oldier.asp<br>
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It really looks like a "small gladius". Anyonw knows something more on this item? Is there something similar in other museums?<br>
Someone has already "reenacted" (reconstructed) it? <p></p><i></i>
Whoa, you mean the second photo down? Wacky! If I had to guess, I'd say that it IS a gladius, broken off partway down. The top photo is a regular Pompeii gladius, and it looks like one of his belt plates is stuck to the scabbard.<br>
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WHAT is that at the bottom?? Looks like a piece of Mainz-style embossed scabbard with something very unusual lying on top of it.<br>
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Where did you GET these photos?? You're amazing, Luca!<br>
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Vale,<br>
<br>
Matthew <p></p><i></i>
<em>WHAT is that at the bottom?? Looks like a piece of Mainz-style embossed scabbard with something very unusual lying on top of it.</em><br>
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Hmm, it looks strangely familiar, doesn't it? ;-)...<br>
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www.romanarmy.com/Content...tum=&ID=15]www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/imagebase-show.asp?Selectie=4&Naaminvoer=&Inscrinvoer=&Litinvoer=&select1=Ala%20Afrorum&select2=Guard%20infantryman&select3=Bad%20Kreuznach&select4=Portrait&veranderdatum=&ID=15<br>
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<em>Where did you GET these photos?</em><br>
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From it's former academic obscurity (rumour was he was on a witness protection programme), the Herculaneum bloke has now become the most-published unpublished set of military equipment around. I thought <em>everybody</em> had a set of photos of this (all taken by different people ;-)<br>
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Thinks: I <em>really</em> wish ezboard could deal with that bug associated with quoting long URIs...<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

Anonymous

the pictures occur in a book I bought at the exhibition in Brussels<br>
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you were not allowed to take photos at the exhibition<br>
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[although some people did]<br>
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however these items were in quite dark cases<br>
the best I could do were some notes and rough sketches <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Thinks: I really wish ezboard could deal with that bug associated with quoting long URIs...<hr><br>
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In the case of the imagebase, Mike, you can just use imagebase-show.asp?ID=n where n is the number of the tombstone in the imagebase (IMBn). <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>I thought everybody had a set of photos of this (all taken by different people ;-)<hr>Well, I certainly don't and I wish I had, as his equipment proves a pet theory of mine. <p>Greetings<br>
<br>
Rob Wolters</p><i></i>
Well it's not going to prove <em>anybody's</em> theories until it gets published properly and it is surely not asking too much that, 20 years after it appeared in <em>National Geographic</em>, it could have been fully published at the same time as it was sent on a walkabout. This is academically sloppy and I would have thought lessons had been learned after the Corbridge Hoard languished in a state of semi-published obscurity... but obviously not.<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

Anonymous

Theory Rob ?<br>
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Conal <p></p><i></i>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Theory Rob ?<hr>That baldrics were only adopted at the end of the 1st century AD. And therefore 1st century reenactors should wear double waist belts with their segmentata.<br>
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The only proof for the use of baldrics in the first century AD is the gravestone of the centurio <em>M. Favonius Facilis</em> of the <em>Leg XX</em> which is dated to AD 60. Imo however he carries his sword in Greek fashion as a mark of officer-status. Notice for instance that both ends of the baldric are attached to the same side of the scabbard. A typical Greek style, which made the sword scabbard hang near horizontal. This indeed seems to be the way in which the centurion's sword is slung.<br>
The gravestone of <em>Q. Sertorius Festus</em> of the <em>Leg. XI Claudia</em> does not show a baldic, but his sword is clearly slung in the same fashion as that of <em>Facilis</em>. <p>Greetings<br>
<br>
Rob Wolters</p><i></i>
Both the scabbard in the third photo and Annaius' scabbard make me think of a sword described by Janka Istenic at RoMEC in 1999 and in the 2000 edition of JRMES, which had had a decorative frame attached to its front. Something resembling that frame is visible at the bottom of Annaius' scabbard and the thing over the scabbard face in photo three appears to have been a later decorative addition to a Mainz type scabbard. As Mike points out, the disks on this item also resemble disks on Annaius' scabbard. In a copy of Exercitus from a few years ago, Martin White of the ESG pointed out two items from Hod Hill which may have been used to decorate and personalise scabbards.<br>
The item in photo two is unlike any Roman dagger that I am aware of and I am inclined to agree that it looks like a gladius which has been broken off at an angle. Was it associated with the Herculaneum soldier or was it merely shown next to the Herculaneum sword in an exhibition catalogue? I had been led to believe that he was only equipped with one side-arm.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
Yes pics are found on the web.<br>
They are pics of the images displayed in the exhibition "Pompeii, history of an eruption" that is going to travel around the world:<br>
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Trieste,<br>
Castello di Miramare<br>
25 luglio-31 ottobre 2005<br>
<br>
Mannheim,<br>
Reiss-Engelhorn Museen<br>
28 novembre 2004-17 aprile 2005<br>
<br>
Chicago,<br>
The Field Museum<br>
18 ottobre 2005 al 26 marzo 2006<br>
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then also in Japan (Bunkamura, Sendai, Fukuoka, Kyoto, dalla spring 2006 - winter 2007); Canada (Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, from autumn 2007); Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, from spring 2008.<br>
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The second picture is surely a dagger or pugio, and, according to the "inverted" description on the exhibition panels, it is from the herculaneum soldier. And it IS COOL! Something really different from any other.<br>
In fact we are going to re-create it immediately because we are italians and we are recreating pretorians. I'm far to say that he was a pretorian, but many things could be relevant:<br>
- it is on the italic sole,<br>
- if in service can be assimilated to a vigiles, and this makes him in a role close to the pretorians,<br>
- if not in service he can be a rich soldier visiting his parents or more easily a pretorian from Rome doing the same.<br>
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So I'm keen to have one like it..... <p></p><i></i>

Anonymous

As this was a "holiday" spot for Romans could he have been on vacation ?<br>
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Does he not stick out as the only military man found there ?<br>
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Is the dagger so unlike the normal military type to suggest that it was not part of his military kit, maybe something from nearby Pompeii , a Gladiators short sword ? There are those of us out here who are still holding out for an identifiable Gladiators sword ... so I am willing to streach incredulity a bit<br>
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Conal<br>
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<p></p><i></i>
Hi Conal,<br>
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obviously there was yet another one. It is pretended that during earlier excavations in Pompeji have been found the remnants of a Roman guard in full armament! Thereupon the English artist Edward John Poynter made his famous painting 'Faithful unto Death'; it can be seen on the following link:<br>
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[url=http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/collections/19c/poynter.asp" target="top]www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/collections/19c/poynter.asp[/url]<br>
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Allegedly the soldier is to have been found in a situation, which suggested that he had remained up to the end on his post. I don't know whether his remnants, particularly his armament and weapons were kept in any museum. Perhaps does somebody in this forum know more about it, especially our friends from Italy?<br>
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Greets - Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 8/20/04 6:33 am<br></i>
According to the rumors I've heard all the herculaneum soldier stuff (body included?) is stored in the lowest level (underground) of the National Archeologic Musem of Naples completely hidden to the public.<br>
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I have tried in the past to have more infos from the responsibles, but as usual, none knows.....<br>
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<p></p><i></i>

Anonymous

Very, very interesting find to be sure.<br>
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I've been searching out references to it for a couple of months now, so far i've come up with: The national geographic article that Mike mentioned, pictures of the belt plates in a RGZM journal article by E. Kunzl, full colour piccies and brief description in "Tales of an Eruption" 2003 Guzzo (ed.), brief write up in "pompei -the vanished city" (Time Life), a write up and sketches in Lucerna 27 (newsletter of the Roman finds group, and a somewhat crappy web article ( www.ancientcoinmarket.com/mt/mtarticle5/1.html )<br>
But no decent description seems to be anywhere, while many of the above are crude and often downright contradictory!!<br>
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For me the find was interesting for many reasons, in particular that there were two belts, (i think one is lying down the face of one of the scabbards, which is why it is off centre, as opposed to being part of the scabbard, although it does look spookily like that tombstone Mike pointed out...).<br>
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Also, the supposed "money belt", this strikes me as similar to the combination of the waistband and anonymous square objects that we see on many rhineland stelae.<br>
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The dagger seems to have a gladius style grip, perhaps not too surprising as it can be parralelled elsewhere (Vindonissa)<br>
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Personally, my pet theory is that the "Herculaneum bloke" (!) is a marine, hence being at Herculaneum with a stack of woodworking tools on his back.... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=enniuspaulinus>Ennius Paulinus</A> at: 8/21/04 10:21 am<br></i>
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