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You're forgiven. Big Grin
Was negotiating with Cezary THAT difficult? :wink:
In fact we have not even STARTED yet Confusedhock: !
I've not attempted a reconstruction of this method. In fact I only have 1 plumbata, and that has snapped because I trod on it!

The plumbata were damaged I believe when a blow in combat dislodged the retainng strap send the missiles onto the floor where they were trodden on.

I see nothing wrong with the leather strap system, it is Comitatus' current method (not that we have a regimental method of doping things - members get to try out whatever method of reconstruction they like).

I agree that in the fighting a bag with fletchings poking out might get in the way. But I like simple systems Smile
Quote: I've not attempted a reconstruction of this method. In fact I only have 1 plumbata, and that has snapped because I trod on it!
Ouch! Big Grin

Quote:The plumbata were damaged I believe when a blow in combat dislodged the retainng strap send the missiles onto the floor where they were trodden on.
Ah, I see. Well, as I said earlier, I really don't think they're meant to be inside the shield when there's hand-to-hand fighting. They should either have been thrown before, or left for supporting troops. I don't think each soldier has to use his own plumbatae, it would seem very logical to leave them for the supporting ranks.

Myself, I want to use the quiver as a carrier for 10+ plumbatae on the march, and the shield to carry them forward onto the battlefield. The odd number from Vegetius rules out that they can be carried across the breath of the shield, besides it is not practical to get the ones on the left side out when you're in a hurry. Cry

Too bad we're left with nothing solid, but then I also like experimenting.. 8)
I found the following two press releases on Patrick Chaplin's website. Mr Chaplin is a Dart Historian in the UK and I am wonderingif the following can be taken seriously.

If its true the idea that modern darts is descended from the traditions of the English longbowman is in doubt.

[url:pff87bvg]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/patrick.chaplin/Press_releases/urgent_press_release.htm[/url]

[url:pff87bvg]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/patrick.chaplin/Press_releases/urgent_press_release2.htm[/url]

In addition to being a Roman Army interpreter I am also a dart player and would be very interested in any information anyone might be able to provide.

Wouldn't it be a kick to hold a plumbata competition in camp????

Sam Kimpton
Well it looks as though we have been "diddled" (darting pun there for those of you in the know regarding these things). I neglected to pay attention to the dateline of this press release which was April Fools day of 2001.

A web search failed to return any information on "Bertram Singleton-Pratt" or the "Langford Archeology Group".

The validity of the story is in doubt.

Sam Kimpton
Big Grin
Recently another plumbata turned up. Aitor and I think it's not an original. Opinions?

http://runicoins.bgcell.net/1011p.jpg
Weird... like the thick iron point in itself is working as a weight. Could it be genuine, after all?
Quote:I found the following two press releases on Patrick Chaplin's website. Mr Chaplin is a Dart Historian in the UK and I am wonderingif the following can be taken seriously.

If its true the idea that modern darts is descended from the traditions of the English longbowman is in doubt.

[url:964jt5i4]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/patrick.chaplin/Press_releases/urgent_press_release.htm[/url]

[url:964jt5i4]http://web.ukonline.co.uk/patrick.chaplin/Press_releases/urgent_press_release2.htm[/url]

Sam Kimpton

I'm no historian, nor do I even claim to be any kind of language nazi, of any form. However, words like"dartefacts" and "Dartus Maximus"?? Come on, might as well, be calling your well endowed friend 'biggus dickus'.
...and the account of a dart board that has, basically, an identical layout to a modern competition dartboard?

Now, I'm not doubting ALL of the information in that article. Who knows, maybe someone did find a couple well preserved Plumbata and some form of target not too far away. However, this just sounds way too much like a reporter who is really desperate to sell a newspaper, or a dart player who feels inferiority with his sport.

By the way, I don't even buy into modern dart contests deriving from archery. Daggers, axes, and spears were being thrown at targets for training at least as long as arrows had been being shot at them.
Brian, you missed Sam's post of january 28: the article was originally published in 2001, on April 1st....
As a brief aside, you can buy plumbatae from Jorge of Armillum:

http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?ma ... cts_id=235

And the head separately:
http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?ma ... cts_id=236
Quote:This is one weapon I wish us mid 1st early 2nd century guys carried. Imagine how awesome having a couple of these strapped inside of a scutum would have been.

I know, they look awesome - my favorite Late Roman weapon!
Join the Late Romans and you can have some. :wink:
Quote: I can't help but smile every time I see the plumbata because it always reminds me of the "Lawn Darts" game that we played growing up. But the game/darts are now illegal in the USA because of a few (like 2) kids who threw it up in the air and tried to catch it coming down....and killed themselves.
Ouch.. I had not heard the details yet.. Plumbata-catching, a new sport! :wink:

Quote:These would be brutally effective in large numbers, especially launched against unarmored foes. Course, if you missed, you could certainly expect to see it coming right back at you!
Devastatingly so. Small wonder that the Late Roman army issued them to almost everyone. They must have been able to stop a charge, cavalry or infantry, dead in its tracks. And in the support role, a constant rate of fire over the heads of the fighting front ranks could ease enemy pressure considerably when they would be constantly forced to protect themselves from incoming missiles.
Yeah, they banned it back in the early 1980's I think. One too many drunks and unsupervised children getting hurt. So of course, the safety police stepped in and said that Lawn Darts were illegal, but you could still buy your children rifles to play with....because everyone knows no kids are killed with those every year! :roll:

So were the iron tips on these soft like javelin shafts? To minimize the risk of a return flight back into your own lines?

Or were they used only on a charging enemy to minimize the opportunity of the enemy to stop, pick them up, and return them to their 'rightful owner'?

Cheers!

Britannicus
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