RomanArmyTalk

Full Version: Plumbata
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
Hans,
I'd love to share those ones too! 8)
Many thanks! Big Grin

Aitor
When I look at these coins, what is the emperor carrying over his shoulder?

[Image: Crispus-RICVII-NIR-eSIS-a-G5-TN.jpg]large image 1

[Image: ConstantineI-RICVII-NIR-gSIS-53v-H6-TN.jpg]large image 2

[Image: ConstantineI-RICVII-192-PARL-TN.jpg]large image 3

and Large image 4

and large image 5
Ango, spicula, verutum... :?
Not a plumbata, I think....

Aitor
Christodoulou refers to plumbatae on coins in his Gamzigrad article: "[..] Maximianus Herculius and Maximianus Daia are represented on coins each armed with three barbed javelins [..]"

There's an article about plumbtae shown on coins, that I have not read yet:

Boon, G.C. (1991): 'Martiobarbuli coins', in: The Antiquaries Journal 71, pp. 247-50.
Maybe, I haven't seen them.
In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Aitor
Hi Robert,

I sent you an e-mail with a scan of the plumbatae in that catalogue. Can you send it to Aitor as well, I suppose you will have his e-mail address.

Cheers,

Hans
Hans,
Ooops, I forgot the you haen't got my e-mail address! :oops:
Well, you're right about Robert doing for it (once more) 8)
Thanks,

Aitor
Quote:I sent you an e-mail with a scan of the plumbatae in that catalogue. Can you send it to Aitor as well, I suppose you will have his e-mail address.
Thanks for the quick service, Hans!

Quote:Hans,
Ooops, I forgot the you haen't got my e-mail address! :oops:
Well, you're right about Robert doing for it (once more) 8)

Yup, done.
Quote:In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Ah, is that so? But our only picture of the plumbata mammilata also shows no weight.. I bet they could be 'artistically removed' here as well...
Quote:
aitor iriarte:3p7zyeew Wrote:In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Ah, is that so? But our only picture of the plumbata mammilata also shows no weight.. I bet they could be 'artistically removed' here as well...

Doesn't the word 'plumbatae' actually mean 'leaded ones'?
So, technically speaking, no lead = no plumbata :wink:
And a plumbata sans lead weight would obviously never have
the range or hitting power of a dart with the lead weight. One
thing I'd be interested to know, though, is the meaning of the
term 'mammilata'. I'd always thought that was describing the
shape of the lead weight in this variety as being 'breastlike'... :oops:

Ambrosius
Quote:Doesn't the word 'plumbatae' actually mean 'leaded ones'?
So, technically speaking, no lead = no plumbata :wink:
And a plumbata sans lead weight would obviously never have
the range or hitting power of a dart with the lead weight.

Hi Ambrosius (btw, I presume that's not your real name - real names have to be added to the signature according to forum rules).
We were talking about artistic representations here. Of course these plumbatae had led weights, but we discussed the possibility that (as the image shown in De Rebus Bellicis) the image on the coin could also have been 'artistically slimmed down'.

Quote:One thing I'd be interested to know, though, is the meaning of the term 'mammilata'. I'd always thought that was describing the shape of the lead weight in this variety as being 'breastlike'... :oops:
Yep, that's what it means - 'breated'.
Roman weaponry is bound to make young boys snigger: the sword is called a gladius and the scabbard a vagina. I can't help it.
message deleted for violating the RomanArmyTalk rules of posting.
GO BACK AND STUDY THE RULES OF THIS FORUM!
Edited by Caius Fabius, moderator


Rules for Roman Army Talk
(fondly called "RAT" by its users)

The Internet is a great place to find information, to meet new friends and share ideas. However, and this is SO important: other people cannot see your emotions, so you need to think before you post. Other viewers don't know when you're joking... Use the emoticons (those little smiley faces to the left of the posting window) we have on the list to show when you're joking, or serious, etc.

Think of it this way: the Internet (and this board) is like Kindergarden... everything you need to know in life, you learned while you were in Kindergarden... play nice, don't hit, drink your milk, take a nap, if you hurt someone, say you're sorry, ask permission. Mainly just polite rules of society that seem to have been lost today.

So... RULES:
It would be great if we could all live in a world of sweetness and light, but we are all human and we all have a bad day once in a while and might even be nasty sometimes. Let's not be nasty here!

First off: Please add your real names to your signature... You don't have to remove your Roman name, just put your "muggle" name below it, such as:

a.k.a.: Joe Smith
...something nice and simple like this please! This is all we ask. Isn't it nice to actually know WHO your talking to, rather than some faceless moniker?

**We DO make exceptions to posting your "muggle" name _IF_ you have a valid reason, and by this, we mean job, security, or other reasons of personal safety... not "Ah don't want ma fishin' buddies ta know ah like Roman stuff..."

What's not allowed:

1. No illegal topics (porn, how-to's on terrorism, hacking/phreaking, etc.). No modern politics, religion (discussion of period religion and religious things are okay, but NO proselytizing or attacking another religion). Getting all worked up and arguing about current-events is not allowed either -- we are here to discuss Romans (and Greeks now too).

2. No outright hostility or abusive conduct -- this means flaming, spamming, zinging or flooding. Excess of malice -- just being a rude jerk or plain mean -- IS abuse. (remember, play nice from above...) Discrimination on basis of nationality, ethnicity, sex, race, religion, which way you swing, etc. is also being abusive (and stupid besides). Do not characterize other members with negative labels.

3. No foul language: Don't say stuff that you wouldn't say in front of your grandmother (by this, we mean things she would have ripped your earlobe off for saying back when you were younger). Mild expletives like "crap," "damn" and "hell" are okay, as long as they are not used in cursing AT someone. If in doubt, use d--n or h**l -- it gets the point across yet isn't offensive. (be polite)

4. Spamming or trolling is not allowed.

5. Sale or advertising of sale of archaeological or other cultural goods without attested provenance is not allowed. Any posts that could contain advertisement for the sale of cultural goods will be deleted even on suspicion.
It is allowed to post links to images on such sites, but only the link to the image itself (i.e. a link that ends in .jpg or .gif is ok). You may also download the image and display them from another server. If you do not own your own webspace to relocate the image on, we may be able to help you.
It IS allowed to discuss such items if their provenance is known, e.g. from a well know collector. When in doubt, ask a moderator!

What is encouraged:

1. Treating others as you would want to be treated. Be polite and courteous, and you'll be treated that way. Healthy disagreement over ideas or facts is definitely OKAY. But direct your arguments at another person's logic -- not at the person. Be mature!
2. Supporting newcomers and helping them to become a member of the community. Build the board one person at a time. Welcome newbies' innocent questions. Take the time to explain things to them -- we were all new once!
3. Posting often. Have something meaningful and pertinent to say in the topical forums. In "Off-Topic" area, be as frivolous as you like -- it's all for fun there (still no attacks though).

If you have any questions, ask a Moderator. Thanks and enjoy making this board a fun, easy-going kind of place where everybody's welcome.

Ominous Stuff for those Who Can't Play Nice...

For those who can't be nice, we sometimes have to be stern. And whilst we might like to use a more Roman punishment (like caning bad people's feet), we can't do that online, so...

(1) Members who make minor one-time violations may receive a warning on the thread in question, or via their Presonal Messages system or email, and the offending post(s) may be edited or deleted by a Moderator or Admin without notice. Threads found to be disruptive or unsuitable for RAT may, or infact and most likely WILL be deleted or closed, without notice.

(2) True incorrigibles (e.g. unwilling to follow Admin instructions or heed Moderator warnings) and major offenders (libel, threats, sabotage) can be banned without notice. Depending on the member's history of wasted second chances, the ban may be temporary or permanent.

(3) Sanctioned members who attempt to evade these corrective measures by creating new aliases or accounts in order to post freely will have those new accounts banned, and their original account may suffer further restriction. And in these case, we might have to send out our Roman Punishment Team, complete and ready cane the feet of these incorrigables. ;-0
PLEASE, don't force us to be mean!

**These Rules for Posting are subject to the interpretation of the site owner and may be changed without notice.
_________________
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster, Romanarmy.com
Editor, Journal of Ancient Military Studies
Editor, Res Militares
Rules for posting
Privacy on RAT
Quote:message deleted for violating the RomanArmyTalk rules of posting.
GO BACK AND STUDY THE RULES OF THIS FORUM!
Edited by Caius Fabius, moderator

Hi Mike,
You see, RAT is moderated a bit more stricktly than Arthurnet.... :wink:
Best send me a PM in future.
Avete Valerius et Faventianvs,

I had a question about adding those strips to hold plumbata on the inside of your shield : how were you able to work around the problem of using rivets so that they aren't visible on the face of the shield ? Did you attach the strip before adding the canvas to the face ?

I ask because I'm thinkg about attaching some strips to my own shield, but I'd like to avoid damaging the face or at least I would like to disguise any visible damage.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Theo
Quote:I had a question about adding those strips to hold plumbata on the inside of your shield : how were you able to work around the problem of using rivets so that they aren't visible on the face of the shield ? Did you attach the strip before adding the canvas to the face ?
Hi Theo,
How thick is your shield? Mine is between 7 and 9 mm, and 4 small nails are perfectly sufficient.

Which brings me to the next topic - do you mean to throw them from the shield?
We've been discussing this lately and the more I read and think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the 'plumbatae inside the shield' were not meant for front troops (lines 1 to 4), but especially for the supporting troops (lines 5 to 8) , who then maintained a constant rate of fire over heads of their comrades in front of them.

If not, throwing plumbatae would mean getting rid of your hasta first. And throwing them directly from the shield has it's own set of problems, even though both are possible.

Therefore I think that even if immediate use of the plumbatae from the shield is possible (like when troops are attacked on the march, in the camp, or while forming up), I think it's most likely that they left them with the supporting lines when the battle started.

What do you think?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47