RomanArmyTalk

Full Version: Phrygian cap under helmet?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
I was wondering for a long time what the wide straps some times seen under the helmet were. They're visible in sculptures mostly,but also in coins. Those straps have been discussed in the past and some said they may had been to tie the helmet but they can't be. Some talked about special padding caps under the helmet,but what I think they were,is just the phrygian cap with its ear coverings tied over the head. look at some pictures and tell what you think.
http://hoplitikon.com/GREEK%20ART/GREEK%20ART%20051.jpg
http://hoplitikon.com/GREEK%20ART/GREEK%20ART%20054.jpg
http://hoplitikon.com/GREEK%20ART/GREEK%20ART%20067.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/118/2937 ... 26d5_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/123696 ... 20c8_o.jpg
http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/4800 ... 3cae_b.jpg
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/larrymyth ... Bronze.jpg
http://www.unige.ch/lettres/archeo/intr ... syas_2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... turyCE.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... na1001.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 8720_o.jpg

I also found that a cap that has ear coverings is very comfortable. The helmet is very tight around the ears and this is where the weight goes when you bent your neck right or left. However,I couldn't hear as well with it. And also,I haven't seen hoplites wearing phrygian caps in vases. But this is off the top of my head,I can be mistaken.
Khairete
Giannis
Actually there was no standard solution.
The following apply
Arming cup - I had posted a pic on another thread.
Aristotewles describing sponge and leather lining.
And the "phrygic cup" fit nicely with "Italiotic" 4th century helmets

Kind regards
Can tou find a seemingly greek hoplite with a phrygian cap in any of your vase photos, Gioi?
Yes,there may not have been common practice,but I see they insist on the phrygian caps on sculptures. There are far less all the other caps seen in sculptures.
Khaire
Giannis
Note,we don't want Amazons,wearing linothorax. This is normal. The ideal would be a dressing hoplite,perhaps in a departure scene,with a phrygian cap. Am I asking too much? :lol:
Khaire
Giannis

PS. If you have other interesting pading caps,you can post them here,too :wink:
Quote:Look how thick his pilos is.

Giannis, look at the next picture in the series. The cap or wrapping is folded over. Its strange- as though you took off your cap, then just laid it on your head, then put on your helm.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/schumata/6 ... 335957050/
Ha ha! Nooo,this is his hair! It is stylizes,yes,but it's a hair style. Under the first layer of hair there was a ribon that holded the other layer of hair. In the arxhaic and early clasical times such hair styles were very common. But interesting,I hadn't visualized it the way you did! :lol:
Khaire
Giannis

EDIT: I found a better view of it here
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2206/220 ... 52d6_b.jpg
Ha!, thanks that's the second time you've set me straight on ancient hair. I am comforted since as a cap it made little sense to me.
The ancients have some extraordinary hair styles. It seems unlikely that they ever used them in real life,more so in battles,as seen in the sculptures. On the other hand, we have reports that the Spartans paid additional attention on their hair especially before battle,so they must had been doing something uncommon...The other thing is that around the world primitive warriors always paid particular attention on their appearence before going to battle,often doing stange and seemingly uncomfortable things...This is still the case in some cultures in Africa and Asia...
Khaire
Giannis
I was thinking about padding my Phrygian helmet and I have seen this post. I have never used a cap under the helmet only some "accidental" padding on the upper part to fix it correctly to my head. Then I saw the paddings of some roman helmets and it inspired me to do it in my own helmet. I thought about covering with leather the red area marked in the photo and to use a pad like the one is used in roman ones (you can see it in the pic).

But I like the idea of the Phrygian cap under the helmet, then I would like to know what solution do you think is the best. Should I pad the helmet in the "roman way" or should only cover with leather some parts using the Phrygian cap instead of the other pad?
Do whatever is most comfortable.
John,many people here are interested in more things than just being comfortable.This is the meaning of re-enacting.
Javier,I think you could line your helmet in thin leather(or not,if you don't want to)and then either use a padding cap,like the one you posted here,which doesn't cover your ears,or use a phrygian cap with the ear cover pulled and tied over your head.
Khaire
Giannis
Thanks Giannis and John, I think I will line the lower part of the bowl and cheekpieces with leather as you say. The helmets I saw lined this way looked very comfortable Big Grin

And about the upper part, with the cap or the phrigian cap, I think I will try both, anyway I always can wear the phrigian cap without helmet, and if it is hot outside I just would put the other cap only to fix it to my head. The cost of both solutions is not expensive.

I will see and tell you how it works, thanks for the ideas Big Grin
Oh I didn't know that. Thanks Giannis!
The helmet fits perfect to my head with the phrigian cap, I can move with total freedom, and the helmet stands always in the correct way, the cap is a great solution!! and it is very comfortable Big Grin
Pages: 1 2