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Full Version: Is this a pileus cap?
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Just deformed but...

[Image: 1973.3.74a.jpg]

[Image: 1973.3.74b.jpg]

[Image: 1973.3.74c.jpg]

the details at:
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/record.aspx?id=3352

Valete
Interesting, could be helmet liner cap...?
It doesn't look like what you asked since there's no curved top portion,but it does give me some good ideas on making helmet liners. Then again, it could just be someone's very old skull cap. ( What's the material ? Looks like linen- or maybe burlap). Any dating on this?
Looks like the trangular wedges I use for mine, but then that is assuming there is a little padding..
Quote:What's the material ? Looks like linen- or maybe burlap). Any dating on this?

As told above the details at:
http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/record.aspx?id=3352

Vale,
Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry I didn't notice it earlier.
Very interesting: Coptic period, linen,wool. Good design.
I'd been wondering what I should make with this bolt of antique flax linen my mom gave me. She got it 35 or 40 years ago from a family friend who ran the local mill. It was originally made for use as dish towels. The more you wash it the softer it gets. I've used some to make focale but its too narrow, only about 17 inches wide. My last one was just getting broken in when I gave it up as an emergency bandage for a cowboy reenactor who got hurt at a timeline at the Fort at #4 last year. I suppose I could have asked for it back and dyed it, but we were too worried about him after his horse dragged his head along the pallisades of the fort like a little boy with a stick on a picket fence. Confusedhock:
Good for your quick thinking in giving up the bandage material. A laud for your trouble!

Dying linen to get out a blood stain might be problematic, though...doesn't dye all that well with dyes we can generally get in the public sector. You don't think 17" wide is good enough for a focala? Hmm. How wide would you consider enough? Just asking, not criticizing. Chances are there were dozens of sizes of those neck scarves.
DATING:

Coptic period.........

so... Nuff said!

Wink

M.VIB.M.
Quote:Interesting, could be helmet liner cap...?

I would agree. I think there are two green panels opposite each other, which might suggest it was worn to be seen?

If I understand cloth cutting correctly, the triangular panels ensure a round top, so presumably it's not a military Pannonian cap.
Quote:If I understand cloth cutting correctly, the triangular panels ensure a round top, so presumably it's not a military Pannonian cap.
Exactly. No flat top here, which I think is one of the essential parts of a Pannonian cap (civilian fashion too, btw).
Salvianus and Robert, I cannot agree guys, since it's looks like a cylinder with a convex top just for a deformation due to the loss of the stiffening disc that I believe any pileus pannonicus had IMO.
The side of the cylinder is too high to wear deeply the pileus with a convex top without covering the eyes and it does not keep the convex shape if worn less deeply because the top becomes concave for gravity.
I rather think that any pileus was stiffened by a sort of inner framework, maybe linen or so and it was so too. My fur pileus was not stiffened at first and so it became soon floppy especially after using it like helmet lining. And after a two days of mock battles it took just the form of the egyptian pileus above covering my eyes Big Grin

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Even a wedged top can be flat and stiffened to be always well shaped.

Valete,
Quote:I rather think that any pileus was stiffened by a sort of inner framework, maybe linen or so and it was so too. My fur pileus was not stiffened at first and so it became soon floppy especially after using it like helmet lining. And after a two days of mock battles it took just the form of the egyptian pileus above covering my eyes Big Grin

Hi Daniele,

Well, I can only say that my old pileus of thin felt never needed an inner framework, nor any stiffening disk, and it never became floppy. The only reason that the top is not flat is because it's to small for my big head and I tend to pull it over my ears. That's not the correct way to waer it, as can be seen on your ivories, as well as for instance the terarch statues.

A pileus made from wool or a normal thicknesss of felt would never need any stiffening or inner frame.
Sure Robert, but:

this is a pileus-like hat made of fur:

[Image: fig2_red_army_officers_corps_cossack.jpg]

this is another one (cossack SS) with a sort of felt framework, note the floppy top like te roman one:

[Image: 96918.jpg]

The all-felt fez are very rigid and can be very tall without stiffening:

[Image: fez.jpg]

What I mean with the pics is that fur needs of stiffening (and I think linen needs too) while as you rightly tell felt does not. So I'm tempted to consider the egyptian finding as an actual pileus pannonicus made of linen for warm climates.

Vale,
Yes that is a plausible possibility I suppose, but could you not wear one under some of the later helmets? Or did they use suspension type liners by that time?