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Reconstructing a 6th c. Baldenheim spangenhelm
#16
Theo's description above (in bold blue) suggests that the straps themselves were gilded bronze, and that only the plates in-between were iron (sometimes wrapped in silver sheet). I wonder if the archaeological record bears this out.

I was under the impression that each component was made of iron and then sheathed in foil before being assembled and riveted together. Anyone else wanna weigh in here?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#17
Hi Franklin,

These helmets weren't sheathed in foil like the earlier ridge helmets sometimes were.

Either they were gilded or silvered by application of gold or silver leaf or they were mercury gilded.

The decoration is worked out on the brass and then the silvering or gilding took place.

I plan to leaf the brass 'spangen' brass but silver the iron of the cheek plates and the space between the decorated 'spangen'. I'll use silver leaf for that.

The book you quoted is a very good one. I don't have it but someone gave me a plan from it and the full drawings in the book are a very good help in the reconstruction process!

Kind regards,
Jef
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
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#18
Unless somebody posts otherwise I'll take your word for it. But the brow band surely is iron sheathed in embossed foil, correct?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#19
Hi Theo,

Personally, I believe that it’s elaborate enough for an officer but, wow, that would be quite an under taking!

I’m struggling along with my Corinthian to Attic Helmet as it is! I cut all the face plate and cheeks off, reshaped them, and fabricated the visor.

If you take on that helmet project… definitely post some shots!
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#20
Quote:Unless somebody posts otherwise I'll take your word for it. But the brow band surely is iron sheathed in embossed foil, correct?


I believe there are two types of construction for these helmets. The bowl could be made from iron segments that are roughly triangular in shape (the long edges are a bit curved). The spangen don't reach to the bottom of the bowl. On this open iron band the brass embossed browband is rivetted.

Another construction method is that the iron segments do not form the complete bowl. They only tough on the long edges and the bottom edge doesn't form the rim of the helmet. They follow about the same curve of the spangen at the bottom. With this method I think an iron browband is indeed covered by a brass embossed band.

It's very dificult to explain.

Here you can see a photo of my helmet from quite some time ago, sorry about the bad quality...: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/M ... s/helm.jpg

It's made using the first method I described. We had to file, sand and polish it by hand as an exercise... Also note that some of the spangen are still held by screws instead of rivets.

Vale,
Jef
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#21
Hi Theo,

Personally, I believe that it’s elaborate enough for an officer but, wow, that would be quite an under taking!

I’m struggling along with my Corinthian to Attic Helmet as it is! I cut all the face plate and cheeks off, reshaped them, and fabricated the visor.

If you take on that helmet project… definitely post some shots!
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
Reply
#22
Hi Anthony,

Quote:Hi Theo,

Personally, I believe that it’s elaborate enough for an officer but, wow, that would be quite an under taking!

I’m struggling along with my Corinthian to Attic Helmet as it is! I cut all the face plate and cheeks off, reshaped them, and fabricated the visor.

If you take on that helmet project… definitely post some shots!

I agree it's probably good for high rankers given what I've been reading over the last few days.

I'm no metalsmith but thanks for the encouragement Smile I'll post pictures for sure when I buy a replica (possibly very soon).

BTW, I really like your casting work. I'm sure you could make some money buy offering your services to members on this forum who are also struggling to put together an officer kit.

~Theo
~~~~~jaime~~~~~~
Fathers of the Church
[Image: CRShield02.png]
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#23
Hi Theo,

Those helmets are high officer helmets. They where probably made in state led fabricae that were remnants of the earlier Roman fabricae. They were given to high officer as a disticntion or some kind of relationgift by the kings.
They were used in battle though. Several of these helmets have obvious battle damage on them.

Vale,
Jef
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#24
Ave Marcus,

It seems to make perfect sense that Roman officers would wear Gothic style helmets in the 5th and 6th centuries since the Goths dominated the Eastern army's high command posts until they were massacred by the people of Constantinople and the Emperor expelled them by bringing the Isaurians into the capital (as I recall).

Thank you for your input. It helps finalize my decision to have one made Smile

~Theo


Quote:Hi Theo,

Those helmets are high officer helmets. They where probably made in state led fabricae that were remnants of the earlier Roman fabricae. They were given to high officer as a disticntion or some kind of relationgift by the kings.
They were used in battle though. Several of these helmets have obvious battle damage on them.

Vale,
Jef
~~~~~jaime~~~~~~
Fathers of the Church
[Image: CRShield02.png]
Reply
#25
Dear Franklin,

I was just reading another report on a beldenheim helmet and noticed that is was constructed like you said. It has a browband of 1mm-2mm thick iron. Over this band embossed brass is folded. This brass had a thickness of about 0.15mm. It is very obvious that the embossing wasn't done with punches but with a die. The artist made a few mistakes when doing it and got overlaps in some places.

Kind regards,
Jef
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#26
Quote:Dear Franklin,

I was just reading another report on a beldenheim helmet and noticed that is was constructed like you said. It has a browband of 1mm-2mm thick iron. Over this band embossed brass is folded. This brass had a thickness of about 0.15mm. It is very obvious that the embossing wasn't done with punches but with a die. The artist made a few mistakes when doing it and got overlaps in some places.

Kind regards,
Jef

Did the report say anything about the brass sheet being gilded? With mercury perhaps?

PS - what's the proper past tense? gilded or gilt?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#27
It was gilded indeed. It does not say by which technique, though...
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#28
Did the report also confirm the brass spangens and iron plates?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#29
Quote:Did the report also confirm the brass spangens and iron plates?

Yup, it did.

Also interesting information about the cheekguard padding: the cheekguards weren't just borderd in leather. A cheekguard shaped piece of leather that was a bit larger than the metal guards was placed over a few layers of fabric and the ends of the leather were folded over the cheekguards and sewn through the large round holes that run all around the cheekguards.

Vale
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#30
Fascinating. Seems like that would actually be more complicated than simply edging with strips of leather, as you would a scutum.

I don't suppose there's any chance this report is in English? I'd love to get my hands on a copy.

More than that I'd love to see a detailed report on the Vierteiliger helm...the surviving example that that has gilded spangens and silver plates.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
Reply


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