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Garum
#1
I seem to recall a smelly but extremely interesting discussion about garum in the Civ Talk forum..

Has it gone bad? ('tasteless' joke, I agree).
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#2
Hi Robert,
Have you tried searching for 'garum'? I got a page full of results.
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#3
Heh.
I did at first and got no hits. Hence the question, because the search tool on this new board is SOOO much better than the one on the old board..
I guess there must have been a glitch?
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#4
Possible, yeah. Big Grin
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#5
Yeah I know, I'm goofing uo from time to time!

But seriously, I can get access to the board on a regular basis, and yesterday it froze up. That sort of thing.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#6
Mmmmhh, something like this? http://p088.ezboard.com/fromancivtalkfr ... =1&stop=20
Sorry, I canot find out how to paste the URL here in a better way! :oops:

Aitor
[/url]
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#7
Hi Aitor et al,
Was it ever determined if Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce could be an acceptable substitute for Garum, for those of us who are not inclined to try making it on our own? :wink:
I've used Worcestershire sauce (we call it "Wooster" sauce down here in the South... :mrgreen: ) for many years, especially on grilled steak and hamburgers, and it can't be beaten as a marinade for them, in my opinion! Big Grin
Lucius Aurelius Metellus
a.k.a. Jeffrey L. Greene
MODERATOR
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#8
Lucius,
I'd rather vote for the more 'exotic' flavoured (and smelly) Thai and Vietnamese fish sauces but I wasn't there for tasting true garum, if you understand me... :wink:

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#9
The vietnamese fish sauce called nuoc mam is nothing else but garum. Only the fish are different. If I recall garum was made with several species of fish whereas good quality nuoc mam is made exclusively from fresh anchovies layered in a barrel with salt and fermented, producing the sauce.
Pliny the Elder writes that it was made with fish innards "that we usually discard". Remnants of garum found in amphoras reveal that it was usually mackerel.
Like olive oil, the first draining is the best. It was known as flos flos in roman times (flower of flower) or gari flos (virgin garum, as in virgin olive oil) and only perfume was more expensive. The most expensive garum was made with murenas.
It is used as salt in Vietnam but contrary to salt it is crammed full of protein and other good stuff like phosphor and iron, besides the fact that it tastes beautiful, to me at last..
But I'm french.. We love to eat things that do not smell good.. :lol:
Incidentally, in the french riviera (Nice and Antibes) they still make a fish paste called "pissalat", (peis salat/salted fish in local dialect) which is probably similar to the halex, a by-product of garum fabrication.
In the old days it was made with alevins of sardines (no more than 5 centimeters long), now that we've become environementally conscious, anchovies are used and the recipe is obviously straight from ancient Rome. Unfortunately, due to its long and complicated fabrication, it is more and more replaced by mere un-fermented anchovies paste in the local cuisine.
for those reading french: Everything you ever wanted to know about garum, oenogarum, hydrogarum, oleogarum, garum piperatum (hot),liquamen, lymphata, muria and even honey sweetened garum that you could drink..
Warning: if you're into "processed" foods and other nourishments coming out of clean plastic containers straight out of a big factory , do not read. You will be disgusted.. Big Grin
[url:37556b38]http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/encyclopedie/garum.html[/url]
Pascal Sabas
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#10
This post has been removed by the author. I do not see a point to being on a forum where moderators such as Matt Lanteigne aka Magnus can practice harassment and hypocritical behavior. RAT seems to have slipped into a place where people of this ilk can do or say whatever they want AND since he's a moderator, I guess it's all okay w/ the forum owners. Good luck, but I am done here.
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana http://www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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#11
Quote:Hi Aitor et al,
Was it ever determined if Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce could be an acceptable substitute for Garum, for those of us who are not inclined to try making it on our own? :wink:
I've used Worcestershire sauce (we call it "Wooster" sauce down here in the South... :mrgreen: ) for many years, especially on grilled steak and hamburgers, and it can't be beaten as a marinade for them, in my opinion! Big Grin

They call it Wooster in Worcester too, so you're in good company . Smile
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#12
Does anyone have an original and documented recipe for garum? Would like to try and make some here at home and try the real deal instead of a store bought substitute.

Cheers,
Adam
Gaius Opius Fugi (Adam Cripps)
Moderator, Roman Army Talkv2
Forum Rules: http://www.ancient-warfare.org/index.php...view=rules
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#13
You'll need some equipment for that one, and maybe you shouldn't try that if you have close by neighbours. They may not like the smell...
This is the recipe for pissalat, a recipe from Nice. It looks like halex, a by-product of garum and it could pretty well be that the liquid strained at the end of the process is actually garum.
Incidentally they also have a traditional fish sauce recipe in Italy, in the region of Amalfi. It's called colatura di alici and in this case the anchovies are fermented in a bottle.
Ingredients for 1 kilo (2 pounds) of fresh anchovies:
A pound of coarse salt, thyme, laurel, marjolam, cloves.
Empty guts and chop heads off anchovies, wash with sea water in a strainer to remove the big scales (the smaller ones will be cooked by the salt).
In a jar, lay first a layer of salt and spices(to your taste), then a layer of fish, then another layer of salt and spices and so on. The upper layer must be a layer of salt and spices.
Cover with a wood lid and put a weight over it so as to apply pressure on the mixture.
Store the jar in a cool place, like a cellar.
After three days, remove the blood and the oily stuff on the surface. Put the lid and the weight back.
After seven days, renew the previous operation. That is if you're man enough.
After that last operation, and during 30 to 45 days after that, stir every day with a wooden spatula in order to bring the bottom of the stuff to the surface.
On the 30th or 45th (or 40th I guess..), strain and put the resulting paste in jars with an upper layer of olive oil.

That's it.
Everybody has a special twist for that recipe --the amount and varieties spices you put in and the proportion of salt to fish. Usually it's about a pound of salt for two pounds of fish.
I suspect that the liquid that you strain at the end of the process could pretty well be garum..
It's not rotten fish BTW, it's fermented. It involves enzymes. Just like beer...

PS: If you neighbours complain of the smell, I shall deny having anything to do with this stuff.. 8)

PS again: Worcestershire has very little to do with garum. originally it's an indian recipe accidentally aged in a british cellar belonging to Mr John Lea and Mr William Perrins, chemists in Broad Street, Worcester, England.
Hence the name "Lea and Perrins Worcestershire sauce".
And yes it's pronounced "woostersauce"...
And without it a tartar steak would be nothing but raw ground beef.. 8)
Pascal Sabas
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#14
If you like "nuoc mam", you should trie "mam nem" It is the residual glop left over after making "nuoc mam" It is even labeled fermented fish sauce. Thus it is probably essentially the same as alec/allec.

I personally love "nuoc mam" (garum) and hoped I would like "mam nem" (alec/allec).

I tried once it over rice. I shall not try it again.

There may be something, somewhere that is more foul, but don't bet on it.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#15
Didn't the Romans leave in the fish guts and blood and actually add extra even?
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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