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Guttman Imperial Gallic; anyone made one?
#1
Has anyone recreated the one of a kind imperial gallic that was in the Guttman collection, the tinned one with the extra eyebrows? It would be unique for a reenactor.<br>
Speaking of the collection, were they sold to museums or broken into small collector's hands? <p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#2
Rich, where can you view this helmet. <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#3
The last place I saw it posted was at the Sotheby's auction site, taken down after it closed. The image is in several catalogs which I don't have. There is a drawing of it, but the photos would be better. Anyone know if that is still posted anywhere? <p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#4
Hallo RichSC,<br>
<br>
look at this - excellent - link:<br>
<br>
www.romancoins.info/Milit...antry.html<br>
<br>
Greets<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 1/14/04 3:45 pm<br></i>
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#5
That's a great site. I'm also intrigued by a couple of the other helmets, which I haven't seen published elsewhere. One is the I/G with the red-enamelled crest anchor. The eyebrow treatment seems different than I've seen elsewhere. Also, there seems to be a gold decoration in the center of the brow band. Does this hemmet fall into any of the known categories?<br>
Another is the first Montefortino pictured. I don't know of another with a lowered neckguard and ear cutouts, and the cutout seems to be flanged outward. Plus, the cheek plates have a Greeky look. Is this definitely a Roman specimen? Might it be Celtic? <p></p><i></i>
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#6
Many thanks! the helmet in question is the 7th one down, bronze imperial gallic. <p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#7
High John,<br>
<br>
I think the Montefortino you mentioned belongs to a different type that has been categorized first time by Hermann Pflug in the book 'Antike Helme - Sammlung Lipperheide und andere Bestände des Antikenmuseums Berlin' (Mainz 1988 ). This is a fantastic book with many illustrations, most in color, that describes on 376 pages almost all antique helmet types, beginning with 'Greek Helmets of the geometric Time' and ending with 'Roman Helmets' - unfortunately for You only in German language.<br>
<br>
Pflug called this type in the absence of other designations as 'Italische Helme mit Stirnkehle' (Italic Helmets with Front Throat). He described 7 specimen of the Berlin Collection that all had the throat and except of one all have an ear cutout. The other helmets of this category all have a deeper neck guard and the throat is clearer. But as far as I know there is no real Montefortino with an ear cutout, and the neck guard of them is not as deep. Especially the form of the helmet top corresponds with the 'Helmets with Front Throat' and the cheek guards look rather italic.<br>
<br>
I found only one photo of this type in the net:<br>
<br>
www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/sorr-helm.htm<br>
<br>
It is the second helmet from Les Sorres - here called Etruscan - and has a unique lion head decoration.<br>
<br>
Greets Uwe<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 1/14/04 3:28 pm<br></i>
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#8
Uwe:<br>
Thanks for the answers and the link. Do you know if the Pflug book is available anywhere? My German is not very good, but I'd like to have it for the photos alone. <p></p><i></i>
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#9
Hallo John,<br>
<br>
here some more informations about the book. First of all I think I must revise my statement about the color. I am no longer sure if there were most pictures in color or only some pictures. The book is out of print now - although Oxbow seems to have it yet - and I only had a copy in a public library in my hands some years ago. I made for myself some photocopies and today I can't recognize if the original photo in the book was in color or not. But I think there were only about 7 large sized color charts.<br>
<br>
For sure I can say the book contains a catalog part with 122 selected helmets, descriptions, detail pictures and paintings (of small details, when necessary). A common part contains the following chapters:<br>
<br>
1. Greek Helmets<br>
- from geometric time<br>
- Cyprian<br>
- Illyric<br>
- Corinthian<br>
- Apulic-Corinthians<br>
- Chalkidician<br>
- Hellenistic<br>
<br>
2. Helmets of the "Urnenfelderkultur" (Urn Field Culture)<br>
- Cone and Bell-shaped<br>
- early iron-temporal comb helmets<br>
<br>
3. Italic and Alpine Helmets<br>
- Hallstatt<br>
- Italic with "Krempe" ("Edge of a Head ?")<br>
- over-italic cone helmets and Tessine helmets<br>
- Italic with Front Throat<br>
<br>
4. Celtic Helmets<br>
<br>
5. Roman Helmets<br>
- Etruscan-roman<br>
- Roman<br>
- One Helmet and Greave of a Gladiator<br>
<br>
These chapters show the development of the different types, again with many photos and detail paintings, great (German ) text. There are several authors for the particular chapters, beside Hermann Pflug: Angelo Bottini, Götz Waurick, P. Schauer, F.-W. von Hase, M. Egg and Ulrich Schaaf. The book displays the scientific knowledge of 1988, You won't find new pictures of the Guttmann Collection. Especially on roman helmets You should look at Marcus Junkelmann "Römische Helme" (Roman Helmets) or Junkelmann / Born "Römische Kampf- und Turnierrüstungen" (Roman combat and tournament arms). Both beautiful books with a lot of (for me until then) unknown helmets.<br>
<br>
I found with the help of Google the following sources of supply:<br>
<br>
www.vcoins.com/frankkovac...57&large=1<br>
<br>
www.oxbowbooks.com/bookin...tion/Oxbow<br>
<br>
I hope, this helps.<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>
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#10
Rich,<br>
Francois Gilbay, a French reenactor has made this helmet, as well as a pair of matching greaves etched with matching cheekplate decoration, for his Augustan Centurion impression. I believe you can see him wearing it in the giant Ostia group photo posted back on that thread. I will have good pictures of him wearing it in my next Roman Reenactor book.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>
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#11
Many thanks Dan! I'll look for that, though the Ostia image I have makes the guys in the back to be pretty small. When's the book out?<br>
<br>
BTW, this is an image of the helmet using the free image hosting site that Matt L. recommended ( www.photobucket.com )<br>
<br>
img15.photobucket.com/alb...helmet.jpg <p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#12
<br>
Saluete,<br>
<br>
here is François Gilbert at Ostia, with his Guttman Imperial Gallic helmet (the best photo I have):<br>
<br>
<img src="http://users.libero.it/sabsab/titus/Francois_Guttman.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
<p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini

... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...


Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
[Image: PRIMANI_ban2.gif]
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#13
I do not see the lighning bolts on the cheek guard. Is it because the photo is bad or because they weren't included? <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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