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Sarmatian/Persian soft kit 1 -100 AD?
#1
Moost Sarmatian reenactors I see have a lot of metal covering up their clothes.

I am on the other hand thinking about making a (Scythian) Sarmatian/Persian light archers kit.
So clothing would be the main thing for me. I do have a big old Russian book with the documented finds from the Scythian tombs from the altai mountains. Including two drawings of sleeved tunics. My thought is to recreate these for my Sarmatian clothing.

So my question is.
1)Would this be to far streched? Because if i look at pictures of Mongols (I took myself)now a days it seems to me their clothing still has similarities, with the the altai tunics...
2)Are there other better/closser sources, that I can use?
3)If these exist are these only interpretations of period art work, or is there more?
Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#2
Glad to hear you are joining the ranks! Alanus is the man to ask for Sarmatians but I will try answer the Persian side of the question. I believe they are not too different.

There are basically two styles in use in Iran. The first is the crossover Iranian riding coat, that you can see on the Prince of Shami, Khalchayan, Old Nisa, Tillya Tepe, and a number of other sources. It is not too dissimilar to what the Scythians might have worn several centuries back. The common colour appears to be a dark red, with a contrasting border, probably in white, or with some decoration (tablet woven or embroidered). The coat has long, fitting sleeves which reach below the fingers but are rolled up to expose the hands, is around hip-length, and is worn right over left. You are probably looking at a wool fabric.

The second is the regular tunic, which appears to have a round neckline, and sleeves which are again, long, fitted, and rolled up. This reaches roughly to the knee and is often decorated with one, two, or three decorated bands running down the front, and bands along the sleeves, neckline, and hem. I think that the bands are embroidered onto the tunic but they could just as easily be woven in or appliqued bands. Some tunics are shown draping finely and would be made out of a light material, but others are shown quite stiff. I would guess linen or cotton, perhaps silk if you are feeling posh. My reconstruction is made of cotton and has yellow embroidered bands (but I made a mistake with the sleeve length and it's a little too short, oops!). This type of outfit is depicted often at Hatra and the Parthian west.

On your legs, you would want to wear trousers (you can get something that does the job from Indian stores), and they will be covered with baggy chaps. The chaps are gathered at the ankle with laces and are made out of firm cotton, probably white. If you are wearing a decorated tunic instead of a coat, you would have bands on the front of the chaps as well.

Shoes are probably simple mocs and easy to make. With broad shoelaces which are wrapped around the instep.

Decoration wise - you can't go wrong with a four or six petalled flower, they are timeless designs in Iranian decoration :mrgreen:

In addition you want a belt, belts typically are leather bands with flat D-shaped fittings at each side, a leather thong passes through the D-shaped fittings and laces them together.

In addition to your bow (get a "Hunnic" / "Hungarian" bow, carry it in an unstrung gorytos hung from the rear horn of a four-horned saddle) you will need an akinakes with a four-lobed scabbard. Daggers from the Parthian east are detailed in Nikonorov's "Armies of Bactria" and some were found at Tillya Tepe (they may be Parthian or Saka), but there were a few Parthian daggers found in Iran which have much longer quillions. They are detailed in "Arms and Armour from Iran" by Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani, along with a few Parthian swords.

Here is some more info: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/clothing-iii
Also if you get the chance check out Persian Art, Parthian and Sassanian Dynasties by Roman Ghirshman.

Hope this helps!


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Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#3
A similar topic can be found here.

http://www.amphictyonia.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.15

And take a look at http://comitatus.net/photos2012.html and http://youtu.be/bdnWs3wjB8w


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John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#4
Ah! John just posted good illustrations, originally from the article "Sogdian Costume." The wrap-around style is a kaftan, and the men wore it right over left, the women the other way. It was worn over the tunic, and winter versions had fur borders at the sleeves and bottom. Boots vary greatly, some taller than others (even up to the knee), some with buckles in the Late Sarmatian period and carried over to the Goths. Mine have upturned toes, going back to the 1st millennium BC and still worn today in Mongolia.

My own tunic is too long, but I can't shorten it.
Hair was worn in many styles: two pigtails, standard "barber shop," shaved down the middle, and (most impressive) in a "Mohawk." Sarmatian steles usually depict a moustache less bushy than Celtic ones... kind of like the British "non-com" variety of the late 19th century.

Later clothing, Turkic and Mongol, tended to be longer and often quilted.

As Daryush mentioned, bows were used in two styles: the asymmetrical Hunnic/Alanic (my personal favorite, and I think John uses one) and the standard symmetrical Hungarian (Magyar). Prices vary, so check Grozer Archery. When opting for the high-price natural material models, get gray cattle horn, not buffalo horn (which tends to crack and split). If you want to buy ready-made arrows (and live in the U.S.), the cheapest Saloki ones are available from Kim Coleman at Seven Meadows Archery. Otherwise you pay more through Csaba Grozer.

A sword and akinakes can be attached to a belt via D rings or cut-out plates. Windlass Steelcraft's "medieval dagger" makes a good akinakes with the correct shape of the guard and pommel.

In any event, years ago I was the only Sarmatian reenactor, and I'm very pleased to see "new blood." In a few years, my age will catch up with my enthusiasm, and I'll have to retire. But for now? :grin: Welcome!
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#5
Thank guys, are there some real patterns also especially for the trousers? I would like to make my own. The tunics I had in mind are the ones shown on John Conyards first image: number 18 and 19. I also have a nice artist impression of these tunics.


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Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#6
I think the first set of images are from Pazyryk and possibly a little too early for your timeframe. I don't know whether or not the same patterns for tunics and trousers would be appropriate a little later but I don't think the head gear would be.

Also, check this out: http://www.narodko.ru/article/yatsenko/c.../pic15.htm. Some diagrams of the clothing from Tillya Tappeh can be found on the site too: http://www.narodko.ru/image/gallery/pic4...103109.jpg, which is the time period you are looking at, although they are eastern Parthian or Saka, not Sarmatian or Persian.
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#7
So... this is what I came up with for now:

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Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#8
I think you've gone down the Sarmatian route as opposed to the Persian route. Looks very good. I do have a bit of feedback though. It looks like you are mixing periods a little bit - Alanus will know more than me but AFAIK maille doesn't appear until the 2nd or 3rd Century. In addition, the pelte shield I don't think is used a great deal in the 1st Century (is it used at all?).

Do get yourself a nice unstrung gorytos - an arrow tube attached to a thin bow sock for your bow when it's unstrung. Or possibly an Orlat style gorytos, which has an arrow tube attached to a wider bow compartment for a strung bow and worn on the right hand side.
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#9
Hello, guys

Don't know when chainmail was adopted by the Sarmatian tribes, but it could have been adopted by those who joined the auxilliary units in the late (post AD 68) 1st century. On the norm, Sarmatians would have used scale bodices, not too long, with a slit on each side (to accomodate an akinakes and for ease in riding). I wear mail because it's cheap and I can't find anything "scale-ish" on the market that comes close to looking correct.

The boots are fine, a great variety being worn, and the trousers look good too, often tucked into the boots. The helmet is "spot on!" And the akinakes is "accurate"... especially if Folkert throws it with a steady hand (nuk, nuk, nuk).

I'm just glad to see more Sarmatian/Alanic/Scythian impressions, considering the impact upon Roman military weaponry and armor. Plus this spangenhelm could fit impressions well into the Late period.

What we're NOT seeing in the way of available weaponry is a sagaris. Nobody makes one; and really it's a simple axe to make.
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#10
Thanks Daryush and Alanus, for the feedback. I knew i mixed periods a bit while adding the pelta, I just couldn't resist building one. In the future I would like to ad amore period (small) shield, if that is appropered Are there any examples of Sarmatian shields or shieldbosses? I was thinking of a simple round one with a iron/bronze bos...

I understand mail is plausible then, but would start thinking about scale somehow in the future... Without starting a whole new lengtly discusion,I would dare to ask: Are leather scales/lammelar, be an option?

For my akinakes I made a wooden scabberd with a leather backing like found in the altai region, are there examples of these scabberdsin the first century AD?

The helmet indeed is anice one, It's actualy a little to big for my small head and also could have been a little more oval shapped. I will probably make a custumised inner lining that makes the helmet fit a little better... But overall I like it!
Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#11
Quote:Hello, guys

Don't know when chainmail was adopted by the Sarmatian tribes, but it could have been adopted by those who joined the auxilliary units in the late (post AD 68) 1st century. On the norm, Sarmatians would have used scale bodices, not too long, with a slit on each side (to accomodate an akinakes and for ease in riding). I wear mail because it's cheap and I can't find anything "scale-ish" on the market that comes close to looking correct.

The boots are fine, a great variety being worn, and the trousers look good too, often tucked into the boots. The helmet is "spot on!" And the akinakes is "accurate"... especially if Folkert throws it with a steady hand (nuk, nuk, nuk).

I'm just glad to see more Sarmatian/Alanic/Scythian impressions, considering the impact upon Roman military weaponry and armor. Plus this spangenhelm could fit impressions well into the Late period.

What we're NOT seeing in the way of available weaponry is a sagaris. Nobody makes one; and really it's a simple axe to make.

Where these sagarii used by Sarmations? I recon it evolved from the Scythian bronze Battle axes then?
Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#12
As a starting Sarmatian I have some questions.

Can I use bright coulors like red or yellow for the clothing?
The wooden akinakes scabber is this one side wood and one side leather?
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#13
Hello, Sutoris

Sarmatians descended from the Saka/Massagetae, very clothes-conscious. Red and yellow were used extensively. Perhaps an example of style-consciousness would be the "Princess of Ukok." Or the "Golden Woman of Issyk Kul." Men were no different, wearing fancy clothes, tatoos, and myriands of applicaes and belt placques. Confusedmile:

To Folkert,

The helmet is not "peaked" as much as the original (that I'm wearing). I'll mention your comment to Suhel. Nonetheless, it's a nice helmet and could easily service for a Gothic impression as well. Wink
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#14
Red and yellow that would be nice, can it be wool and linnen?
Could they dye the linnen bright yellow with natural dyes?
I can dye wool a nice yellow with natural dyes but not linnen.
Can the kaftan be leather with fur edging?
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#15
Sutoris,

Many kaftans had fur edging. I'm no expert on natural dyes. I have used RIT dyes, toning them down to make "brick red" by mixing brown with red. Yellow, I just don't know. I don't think any natural dye was terribly bright, more like subdued. :unsure:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply


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