Riding Coats - Late Roman ?

[Conal]

I am talking of the very long sleeved double breasted types which are normally seen in Byzantine picture (?) ... what I need to know is what is the earliest date for this type of clothing in a Roman context please?

[Robert Vermaat]

Picture please? :?:

[Conal]

I have googled but in vain.

its a thigh length jacket with an overlap from chin to waist ... sleeves which reach to the calves .... there are openings at the armpit or elbow where the arms can come through leaving the sleeves to dangle.

[Conal]

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/t ... te/027.jpg

like this ?

[Graham Sumner]

Robert wrote:

Picture please?

You already have a few images and a reconstruction Robert in Roman Military Clothing 3!

There is a book available 'Riding Costume from Roman Egypt' by C. Fluck & G Vogelsang Eastwood Leiden 2004. A collection of essays which deals with the coats. Many are now in Berlin, Lyon or the Louvre.

A simple answer to the date is that they are 6-7th century AD.

Graham.

[Conal]

Robert wrote:

Picture please?

You already have a few images and a reconstruction Robert in Roman Military Clothing 3!

There is a book available 'Riding Costume from Roman Egypt' by C. Fluck & G Vogelsang Eastwood Leiden 2004. A collection of essays which deals with the coats. Many are now in Berlin, Lyon or the Louvre.

A simple answer to the date is that they are 6-7th century AD.

Graham.

Graham

6th century as in 510AD or as in 590AD ?

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Conal

I did say a simple answer! That is because the coats from Antinoopolis were excavated in the late 19th century and so far no one seems to have dated them exactly. However this also applies to other collections of late Roman garments many of which like the coats are complete but which sadly seem to get overlooked and are often not even on display.

Graham.

[Robert Vermaat]

Robert wrote:

Picture please?

You already have a few images and a reconstruction Robert in Roman Military Clothing 3!

Thought so, but wasn't sure he referred to that - hence the picture.

[Conal]

So ... they may have been around pre AD500 8)

Is it proper to say they wree Eastern garb rather than Western ?


Prior to this I assume cloaks were the method of staying warm atop a horse ?

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

Conal,

You might want to take a look at these articles:

A Man's Caftan and Leggings from the North Caucasus of the Eighth to Tenth Century: Introduction
Prudence O. Harper
Metropolitan Museum Journal, Vol. 36. (2001), pp. 83-84.

A Man's Caftan and Leggings from the North Caucasus of the Eighth to Tenth Century: A Conservator's Report
Nobuko Kajitani
Metropolitan Museum Journal, Vol. 36. (2001), pp. 85-124.

A Man's Caftan and Leggings from the North Caucasus of the Eighth to Tenth Century: A Genealogical Study
Elfriede R. Knauer
Metropolitan Museum Journal, Vol. 36. (2001), pp. 125-154.

The garments here are a bit later but rather similar to the earlier long-sleeved coats. Its another set of data points. They are available thru JStor.

Hope this is a help,

Lucianus

[Conal]

Thanks

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

Thanks

Conal,

I have access to JStor and can get those articles in pdfs if you'd like to take a look at them.

Cheers,

Lucianus

[Conal]

Thanks

Conal,

I have access to JStor and can get those articles in pdfs if you'd like to take a look at them.

Cheers,

Lucianus

That would be fantastic

Thanks

[Robert Vermaat]

Oh yes please!

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

That would be fantastic

Thanks

Hi Conal,

No problem! Send me a PM with your email and I'll get them to you. Sorry for the delay, but I've been very sick.

Lucianus