02-06-2007, 04:09 PM
Hi Ron,
I knew I'd read about this recently.
There was an area known as the Engilin Gau in the Unstrut/Saale area of Thuringen. It gets its first mention in 772 AD. A Gau is a sort of administrative area also used by the Saxons and which the Franks maintained. The Saxons at Widukind's time had about 100 such areas, each with its own leader.
The interesting aspect of the Thuringians is the title of their law code, Lex Angliorum et Werinorum, hoc est Thuringorum which strongly suggests that Angles and Warnians formed part of Thuringians. Not only is Engilin in Thuringen but there are many place names, Feld-engel, Holz-engel, Kirchen-engel, Wester-engel. The archaeology is also closely associated with east holstein and east schleswig. The neighbouring gau is called Werinofeld which may describe the presence of Warnians. Relations between the Warnians and Angles was probably very close. We see very similar naming conventions: Werin-hard/Engel-hard, Werin-frid/Engil-frid, Werin-drud/Engel-drud, Werin-gard/Engil-gard etc.
The Franks defeated the Thuringians in 531AD and it is possible that they settled Angles there. Charlemagne did something similar much later when he is thought to have settled 'saxons' from north germany in Sachsenheim in the Neckar valley in southern germany after Franconian expansion into the Allemannic kingdom. However, german historians normally talk of Angles having migrated to Thuringen in the 4th cent AD along with the Warnians.
So, exactly what we are looking at with Rudolf's Translatio sancti Alexandri is anyone's guess. It could be Gildas' saxons returning home or it could be one group of germanics being defeated by another, especially if in Kent. The Merovingians claimed parts of kent as their kingdom. Or it could be mercenaries. The german place name researcher Prof Udolph claims many english place names have counterparts in Thuringen so we could even be looking at a different scenario.
best
harry Amphlett
I knew I'd read about this recently.
There was an area known as the Engilin Gau in the Unstrut/Saale area of Thuringen. It gets its first mention in 772 AD. A Gau is a sort of administrative area also used by the Saxons and which the Franks maintained. The Saxons at Widukind's time had about 100 such areas, each with its own leader.
The interesting aspect of the Thuringians is the title of their law code, Lex Angliorum et Werinorum, hoc est Thuringorum which strongly suggests that Angles and Warnians formed part of Thuringians. Not only is Engilin in Thuringen but there are many place names, Feld-engel, Holz-engel, Kirchen-engel, Wester-engel. The archaeology is also closely associated with east holstein and east schleswig. The neighbouring gau is called Werinofeld which may describe the presence of Warnians. Relations between the Warnians and Angles was probably very close. We see very similar naming conventions: Werin-hard/Engel-hard, Werin-frid/Engil-frid, Werin-drud/Engel-drud, Werin-gard/Engil-gard etc.
The Franks defeated the Thuringians in 531AD and it is possible that they settled Angles there. Charlemagne did something similar much later when he is thought to have settled 'saxons' from north germany in Sachsenheim in the Neckar valley in southern germany after Franconian expansion into the Allemannic kingdom. However, german historians normally talk of Angles having migrated to Thuringen in the 4th cent AD along with the Warnians.
So, exactly what we are looking at with Rudolf's Translatio sancti Alexandri is anyone's guess. It could be Gildas' saxons returning home or it could be one group of germanics being defeated by another, especially if in Kent. The Merovingians claimed parts of kent as their kingdom. Or it could be mercenaries. The german place name researcher Prof Udolph claims many english place names have counterparts in Thuringen so we could even be looking at a different scenario.
best
harry Amphlett
Harry Amphlett
