Leather Cuirass

[Tarbicus]

And we don't know wether imported linen was such expensive. Grain was also imported on a large scale as it was said before.

I picked up a copy of Everson's Warfare in Ancient Greece.

'In 664 some Ionians and Carians made an expedition to Egypt (Herodotus II, 152), and this has often been noted as the time when the Greeks first came across the linen corslet and brought the idea back to Greece.'
However, he then points out that the archaeology indicates the middle of the 6th C was when its use became widespread, with the bell cuirass declining in use.

'Amasis redefined the port of Naucratis as a Greek trading centre in c. 550 and kept a Greek bodyguard (Boardman 1980b, p. 117; Herodotus III, 3). Trade between Egypt and Greece increased, and gifts of corslets were given to Greek sanctuaries.'

The other picture could show a warm outer chiton but also a soft armour. What do you think?

Again according to Everson, there was an earlier linen armour that was much plainer than the "linothorax", before the Egyptian gifts.

Now the thing is, Everson also believes there were leather armours. However, it seems mostly used (in the period we're discussing) as part of the composite armour. The shoulder pieces were still linen (stood straight up when untied) and the softer nature of the leather used was to make the linothorax more flexible but needed scales attached. He thinks the thick linen was unsuitable for attaching the scales. Here's some more from the book:

'There are instances of layers of linen forming protective armour - perhaps even from the Shaft Graves - but nothing from Archaic or Classical Greece. On the other hand we do have Herodotus's written description of Amasis's linen corslet, and it seems that this mentions neither glue nor layers of linen. It apparently says that each fine thread of the corslet was made up of 360 individual strands of linen, not that the corslet is 360 layers of linen thick. A strand of linen is about 0.2mm in diameter, and 360 such strands twisted together would form a cord of about 1-1.5cm in diameter, which was then woven conventionally - although perhaps with some difficulty - to form a stiff linen shirt. A problem here is that Herodotus calls this cord a 'fine thread' (aspedoni lepti) (Herodotus III, 47). However, aspedoni in itself does not necessarily mean a thin thread, and lepti can be interpreted as the alternative meaning of the English word 'fine', i.e. delicate, well made or splendid, rather than thin. As Herodotus is describing a linen corslet of the pharaoh of Egypt, the nthis is appropriate enough. Herodotus finds the number of strands forming the cord a 'wonder to behold', and it would appear from this that the more ordinary Greek corslet had rather fewer strand giving an overall thickness of only 0.5cm, which would nevertheless be adequate.'

One thing he does mention is that there's no reason that, where we see brightly coloured armours, the linen couldn't have been coloured before the linothorax was actually woven.

I'm sure Everson will be attacked as being a dodgy reference, but then so has Sekunda before on RAT.

Obviously I'm not an expert on this, but I highly doubt that. I don't think such a drastic variance in discolouration is possible....
Actually, Nick Sekunda has suggested that the L&K cuirasses are bronze, because they are....
Unless the hilt, chape, and grip of those two swords are painted,....

This is where we need a chemist with the right experience of analysing ancient frescoes :wink:

I'd say the left helmet's upper bowl is copper, but its cheek pieces are bronze (there's a difference in the colours). This could mean that the greaves are copper, yes, and I don't see why not. To take it out of the Greek period, there has been a verified Roman helmet where the cheek pieces are cast copper, and the bowl copper. Later, but ancient.

Giannis posted this interesting pic:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... friez3.jpg

What strikes me is that the left hand cuirass is a pinkish shade, which is the same colour as the bottom of the wearer's cloak. I don't think it's a wild suggestion that the cuirass is therefore textile. Also, didn't the Etruscans steal one of the linen Egyptian cuirasses?

I'll gather the stuff from Everson about the leather armour and composite armour, and post it (I only bought it yesterday and have to get to work now).