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Does anyone have any archeological references to finds or studies on Greek tents ?
What material they may have been made of is hinted at earlier in the Anabasis ( Xenophon, Anabasis book 1, chapter 5, section 10) :
“Across the Euphrates river in the course of these desert marches was a large and prosperous city named Charmande, and here the soldiers made purchases of provisions, crossing the river on rafts in the following way: they took skins ( Gk. Gk. s. diptherai, pl. diphtherias ) which they had for tent covers, filled them with hay, and then brought the edges together and sewed them up, so that the water could not touch the hay; on these they would cross and get provisions--wine made from the date of the palm tree and bread made of millet, for this grain was very abundant in the country.â€
Peter Raftos
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Many thanks Comerus.
Peter
Peter Raftos
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Quote:Interested! 
Here you have some Virtual Tents 
http://www.anaktoro.com/photos/photos/photo2.html
Is that the swingpark just to the rear of the Temple or a purple football goal .....:roll: :roll: :lol:
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
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The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
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Khaire Peter,
from The Hoplite Association
quote:there is only one known illustration of a greek tent - and it is from a much later (roman) depiction of a theatrical performance and is so distressed that virtually no detail can be seen.
The Illias Ambrosianos illustration does have a similarity with the Achilles Kylix, in that it depicts a similary draped canopy/opening..but it would also obviously represent the tents of that period...
As archaeological finds are being made everyday, this question could eventually be answered.. :wink:
regards
Arthes
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
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The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
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Thanks Christina,
I don't suppose anyone from the Hoplite Association has a reference for that "one known illustration of a Greek tent " ?
After speaking to Craig Gascoigne from the Sydney Ancients some doubt has been cast on my Anabasis quote. Craig rightly pointed out that the english translation: " they took skins which they had for tent covers " could even mean that these were skins made up as bags and used to transport the tents.
I don't have a copy of the Anabasis in Greek so I will have to search Perseus and see if I can turn anything up there in their online texts. Aint this fun. Thanks again for your interest. I'll keep you posted.
Peter Raftos
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Khaire Peter,
Illustration
This is from The House of the Tragic Poet at Pompeii and is probably IVth style, which would date it approximately 62ce to 2nd century
I would say this portrait of Achilles is based on Alexander.... :wink:
regards
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
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The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
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WOW Too good
Peter Raftos
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The book Art and Thought in the Hellenistic Age: The Greek World View 350-50BC by John Onians was a Thames and Hudson text published in 1979. It has a partial reconstruction of the symposium tent of Ptolemy II c 275-270 BC ( From F. Studnicka, Das Symposion Ptolomaios II, Leipzig.1914.)
Peter Raftos
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A nice description of the interior of Alexander's audience tent can be found here:http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_t70.html
Peter Raftos
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Alexander and Hellenistic kings would have elaborate tents but most classiacal armies and common troops something more like the "hessian" two man tends of modern armies.
Kind regards
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Mmm,
I have been thinking about this Stefanos. I agree that a cheaper material would be used but I would also think that it would be more economical to put more people into one tent. The Spartan word Syskènios tent-companions suggests a larger grouping used a tent. The common meals taken in public among the Dorians in Sparta were called syssitia. The places where the syssitia were held were called tents, and the guests were divided into messes of about fifteen members ( Plutarch, Life of Lycurgus chapter 12:2 ). These messmates were called Syskènios tent-companions. This suggests that they may have also been Syskènios when on campaign.
What do you think?
Peter Raftos
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I know we haven't touched the subject for a while ( link from old RAT but I found this great paper on the Gladius site (well worth registering at.) Not a hell of a lot of Greek material but great overall [url:13aj5xi3]http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/index[/url]
See THE GREEK MILITARY CAMP IN THE TEN THOUSAND´S ARMY - by MAURICIO G. ÁLVAREZ RICO
:[url:13aj5xi3]http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/view/55/56[/url]
Peter Raftos
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I would say that at least in the "Iliad" the tents would probably be extra sails from ship storage. One or two spares would be an excellent cover for all of the crew and warriors but that is a theory based on Common Sense. If there is anything to disprove it please explain. I also think that the size of Greece made tents pretty rare in use. When Marching in the modern US Army unless we were encamped somewhere ( more than a night ) we simply rolled up in our tent halves. The cloak would be sufficient for that. The Northern climates do need tents because of snow and such and here in Florida we have Mosquitoes.
( Florida's REAL state bird )
[url:1978fbxu]http://www.insteadofapes.com/tents/index.html[/url]
Craig Bellofatto
Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin Terminology 
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The major problem is that Homeric greek is a poetic construct and may not reflect the material culture of its peiod as accurately as we would like.
Unfortunately spare sails may have to be reused for their original purpose. Perhaps at first the use of spare sails would be an option but over a ten year siege the Achaeans would no doubt have set up a more substantial fortified encampment. In fact the Illiad itself discusses the tents of the Myrmidions, individual commanders tents and in one instance: "They then made their drink-offerings and went every man to his own tent,".
However,in English translations the Achaean encampment at Troy has been translated as "huts" (Rieu, Fitzgerald, Lombardo) or "tents" (Pope, Butler, Fagles), with Fitzgerald and Fagles respectively using "quarters" and "shelters". Surprisingly the Greek noun in question in the Illiad is not ????? , a covered place or a tent , but ??????. This is related to the noun ?????? for a bed/couch from the verb ????? which means to lean, rest or incline. So a ?????? is a resting place. But that doesn't say anything specific about the nature of the resting place. Delving deeper we find the 'tent' of Achilles in book 24 which the Myrmidons built is made like this: ' They built a frame, pine poles, and wove a roof, waterproof reeds that grew in a marshy field.' Granted he is a king and the grunts may have something different but what we have is a lean to of some description made from natural materials available on the spot. Further, the description in book 13 of Idomeneus' ??????, Homer says had walls (??????) against which the Cretan king's captured spears were standing. Homer also uses the words ????? and ????? to describe commanders shelters - implying rather large strucyres which had a stockade, wide enough to keep horses, carts and cattle. The Rico link is about Xenophon's time and is definitely discussing the ????? but here we come upon a stumbling block because so little, if anything is talking about the construction methods or form of the ?????. If we see it as being similar to the ????? in Greek theatres then it will look something like a small framed hut. For a classical interpretaton of the ????? or ‘tent’ representing Agamemnon's tent see this kylix : [url:piibub4j]http://mkatz.web.wesleyan.edu/cciv110x/Iliad/cciv110.Briseis.html[/url] & [url:piibub4j]http://mkatz.web.wesleyan.edu/cciv110x/Iliad/cciv110.briseis_b.html[/url]. The Rico article also tells us Xenophon relays that the Greeks could always set aside the tents and sleep in the open air, covered only with their bedding ??????? (Anabasis., IV, 4, 11), probably made of wool (Cyropaedia,V, 2, 15) which was different from their cloak ?????? took up a lot of space in each soldier´s baggage (cfr., Cyropaedia., VI, 2, 30). A bed of straw, rushes, or leaves( whether strewn loose or stuffed into a mattress) ?????? (Cyropaedia.,V, 2, 15) could be used to sleep on In Xenophon's, Anabasis I, 5.10 we come across this: “Across the Euphrates river in the course of these desert marches was a large and prosperous city named Charmande, and here the soldiers made purchases of provisions, crossing the river on rafts in the following way: they took skins ( ???????, ????????) which they had for tent covers, filled them with hay, and then brought the edges together and sewed them up, so that the water could not touch the hay; on these they would cross and get provisions--wine made from the date of the palm tree and bread made of millet, for this grain was very abundant in the country.” Or does this actually mean the skins were used as tent covers?
Our Canadian friends in Taxis Plataion have looked at the issue as well: [url:piibub4j]http://www.hippeis.com/forum/index.php?topic=249.0[/url] . Cole noticed that some Etruscan painted tombs were built and decorated like the inside of tents, including poles. In particular, the Tomb of the Diver and the Tomb of the Hunter (circa 500 BCE) show the inside of tents - in particular the Tomb of the Lioness:[urlhttp://www.sitesandphotos.com/catalog/actions-show/id-191083.html][/url]
Rico's article has a lot to offer those who need to set up a classical encampment.
Peter Raftos
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