Old picture of Gladiator\'s helmets

[Uwe Bahr]

Avete omnes,

I found the following picture about gladiator helmets some time ago in a - meanwhile finished - eBay-auction. Obviously an old painting of original pieces shortly after their discovery and/or cleaning. I thought it might be of interest for the one or the other fan of combat sports:

link from old RAT

Also I want to direct Your attention on this site:

link from old RAT

Greets - Uwe

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

The majoritiy of those helmets looks like those found at the Pompeii gladiator barracks which are well documented in Marcus Junkelmanns "Das Spiel mit dem Tod - So kämpften Roms Gladiatoren".

[Uwe Bahr]

Grüß Dich, Gaia,

yes, Junkelmann's book is a very informative one and a must for us German Rome-afficionados, one of the rare occasions when our favorite literature is written not in English ... I referred to the picture more as a kind of wall decoration for the interested ones than archaeologic information.

BTW, what do You - as a Gladiatrix-reenactress? - think about the figurines that I referred to?

[url:15godvcr]http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/[/url]

Viele Grüße - Uwe

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

Salve Uwe,

Some figurines look good like the retiarius who cought the secutor with his net.

But the woman http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/pages/DSCN6072.htm looks too fantasy like to me, like Xena. :wink: So far I have never seen any pictures of gladiators in all those book I read about this topic with pteryges. And her dress :?: looks like that of a amazon nearly leaving one breast bare if she moves a little bit more. Since there's only one ancient picture of gladiatrices is this famous relief of two provocatrices :?: found in Halicarnassos (Bodrum, Turkey). It is not clear what they wore or if they were barebreasted. My reconstruction is with a strophium and subligaculum.

And what type of gladiator is this guy (or is it a girl when looking at the hairdo) supposed to be http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/pages/DSCN6073.htm :?:

[Tib. Gabinius]

Nice figurines
allow me some words about them:
http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/pages/DSCN6023.htm This early type of sica wasnt use whilst the helmet got the full amrored face and the manica shouldnt go over the bows.

Also dimension of helmet and head seems a bit strange, to big the helm.

http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/pages/DSCN6029.htm
Different theorys about killing the "p".
But this i never seen. Either you let him ram his sowrd vom above to the hard, frontal in the "neck" or from down under the helmet in the brain.

The galeus of the retiarius (the shoulder guard) should be somewhat "bigger" not that little part. He should be able to protcet his head behind.

http://panzer46.com/Gladiators/pages/DSCN6056.htm
Give the Thracian a parma of normal size (half as big as an Scutum e.g.)
and it goes around the body as like a scutum would.
You dont need a buckle but you can.
His Sica should again have a "corner", not a curve.
And where is the helmet of his enemy?

Dont give anyone of them a falcata.

But this is all very detailed cirism.
All in all your figures are neary to be best i ve seen of this kinda stuff.

[Conal]

Lets keep in mind that a lot of these figures appear to have been based on the Osprey book which has been soundly thrashed on the old Roman Combat Sports forum.

It seems the model makers did no research beyond the images in that book.

[Uwe Bahr]

Salvete Svenja and Tobias,

thank You for Your very detailed and friendly replies. Tobias, there is yet a little misunderstanding, You wrote 'Your figures' - I am far away from such sculpting abilities and am not their creator, I just wanted to introduce them to the interested ones in this forum. And the answers of both of You show Your experts' knowledge.

I think the sculptor / s from the manufacturer Pegasus just repeted poses and equipment illustrations from other models. The 'Xena'-like gladiatrice has been produced before by the Italian company 'Pegaso' in the larger scale of 1 : 32 (54 mm):

[url:2kouzoii]http://www.pegasomodels.com/details_en.asp?code=54-110#[/url]

The scene with the jugula repets the painting of McBride from Osprey's

[url:2kouzoii]http://www.ludus.org.uk/r/bookosprey.html[/url]

And I think that's an old problem: illustrations or figurines are copied from one sculptor and/or painter by another and when there are may-be little mistakes or phantasies they get multiplied in this way and a not well-informed public regards them as proven facts. But nevertheless I agree with both of You that these miniatures are quite good.

Greets - Uwe

[Uwe Bahr]

Hi Conal,

sorry, for not mentioning Your post, it must have appeared when I wrote mine. Only out of curiosity (I don't have Ospreys 'Gladiators' yet), does the model for the 'Gladiatrix' ([url:3bn3j51k]http://www.pegasomodels.com/details_en.asp?code=54-110#[/url]) also come from a painting of McBride out of this book?

Greets - Uwe

[Conal]

Uwe

No picture of a Gladiatrix in the book but a picture of what is tremed IIRC a Gladiatrix hairstyle.

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

I, too have this Osprey book but not right next to me at the moment. I don't recall if the famous Halicarnassos relief is shown in it. I guess they tried to make this hairstyle from that relief although there it is now clearly shown what they did to their hair. I learned by now, too, that the Osprey books are not to be relied on when it comes to details

The most practical hairdo would be a pony tail bound in the neck so it's not uncomfortable wearing the helmet.

[Conal]

I think the premis was that they fought without helmets.

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

Salve Conal,

I guess you refer to the Halicarnassos relief where the two gladiatrices are shown bareheaded. I have a copy of the article of Kathleen Coleman about this relief (unfortunately this article is not available online

It is remarkable that both women are depicted without wearing helmets on their heads. Next to each woman is a round object shown which could be interpreted as a helmet. You could recognize the visor, the neck guard and the brim. That these helmets have neither a crest nor a plume is not unusual since gladiator helmets could have a variety of forms and decorations, so that there were even helmets without crest.

But why are the helmets are lying next to the women? There were two possibilities to get the mission: Either the spectators called for it and the editor then signalled the summa rudis to stop the fight, or the surrendering gladiator put down a weapon which could have been even a helmet, as shown on a graffiti from Pompeii.

She believes that gladiatrices fought in the same types as their male counterparts. The two women on the relief resemble provocatrices although the shield looks a bit too small for a scutum. Whereas I personally think this might be just a mistake or intention by the artist to show their legs more etc.

[Conal]

I go along with the provocatrices view as the helmet shape fits.

I recall reading an article ...probably on the web ... where someone was convinced that they were not helmets but heads of spectators.

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

Kathleen Coleman mentioned this in her article as well but disproved of that saying it would be an odd angle for being spectators.

[Tib. Gabinius]

And to mention it, often the weapons of the gladiatores are stilicised (right english word aelia?) shown at the edges of the tombs or reliefs.
So this would be compare to this.
But we dont know much about this stone, so it really could be possible, that there a spetators or other gladiatores were be shown.
But personally i would give this a chance of less than 30%.