Consumers guide?

[rusty myers]

I thought this was the purpose of the whole "marketplace" forum. How extensive is this list going to get? Already takes me 5-10 minutes to check all the topics... call me lazy.

From a vendor perspective, we/they should be allowed to answer criticisms, we are admittedly slow at SOTW, as we are re-enactors first, have real jobs, and often have to wait on Deepeeka and other companies too, sometimes for LONG periods of time (We have a pompeii stove on order with them since october 2004!!). We also don't answer the phone much for the same reasons (we always answer email ASAP though).

I have found the Internet is very anonymous for people to vent unreal levels of hatred at people and companies for seemingly small issues, or things that could have been easily foreseen (IE ordeing a custom vex for delivery in 3 days... NOT possible), and this should be taken into consideration. For every complaint, we fill roughly 32 orders with happy results (last year's numbers).

Also need to detail manufacturing vs. company complaint. IE, your gallic I arrives with an extra rivet somewhere... SOTW did not add it, and we do a brief inspection of the helms (usually looking for rust), they ship straight out. But we had it happen that a rivet was about 1/2 inch off and customer rudely demanded refund or replacement as if we did it intentionally. We refunded and kept it in the unit for our use... and I challenge you to pick it out of the Gallic I's in the sixth, a VERY monior blemish that makes it more real in my book. Your helm arrives crushed... with a crushed box... probably a UPS issue... no one ships damaged stuff on purpose. Your Gallic G arrives pitted with rust, dented, etc... blame company... should have at least looked it over. We have returned helms to deepeeka for rust.. and the result was a longer wait by the customer.

Anyway, just issues to consider. There is a lot to consider here I think, and I feel the forum covers it already. I would prefer complaint get posted to the company link above... I thought that was why it was added. I guess this will open up other companies to scrutiny too, so I see the good side of it as well, especially the trooper helm pushers! We rarely get a roman complaint anyway (paintballers... no patience whatsoever!!). Just my ramblings!

[Praefectusclassis]

we/they should be allowed to answer criticisms

I think the moderator's in case of criticism, before allowing the post to go through, should always ask for a rebuttal by the vendor that could be posted with it.

How extensive is this list going to get?

Depends. I'd look for a component that aggregates results (in stars or something), so the overall opinion would be clear in a glance.

the Internet is very anonymous for people

It is. Therefore: no anonymous posting or voting.

I feel the forum covers it already

It's quite possible more members feel the same way, which is why I asked for a vote.

[grab]

I think this is a great idea. I'm fairly new to the hobby, just completed my first year. I would be happy to help out. I'm willing to act as a moderator too if you still need some.

[Magnus]

I see where you are coming from Rusty...but I also think that as a consolidated, concise resource it could work better than having to search for things, and get only partial bits of information.

I think if we remained objective and unbiased in any type of review, we'd be ok.

[Martin Wallgren]

Is this a format we could adopt or is it imposseble to do that?

http://www.myarmoury.com/reviews.html

[Robert Vermaat]

Hahahaha...yeah, me and marsh is a combination like Nitro and Glycerine...hahaha!

You mean Jeckyl and Hide..

I agree with Rusty, btw, up to a point. The difference could be that this new part is set up by equipment par. Helmets, swords, etc., especially if arranged in time, would make it easy for anyone to check out the do's and don'ts for their period and the equipment in that period.

I'm not in favor of a section where we discuss vendors, that could be very tricky, not to mention prone to incident-discussing (I still have a bone to pick with LaWren's), and not looking like a consumers guide IMHO.

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Just to make it clear: are we talking about product reviews, vendor reviews or both?

I am talking about VENDOR REVIEWS Fair, but honest. If you look at the WWII consumer guide, you can see where and how people send in their reviews...

I am talking things like price, service ([size=75:2qyg6071]vendors that take forever and refuse to return messages[/size]), overall service. Accuracy? I dunno... sure. if you want. Diff can o' worms than I'm talking about.

[Tarbicus]

REVIEW #001

The 'Trooper' helm


(Cut; because I've never bought one or held one. Thankfully)

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

I thought this was the purpose of the whole "marketplace" forum. How extensive is this list going to get? Already takes me 5-10 minutes to check all the topics... call me lazy.

Nah, this will be different. Rusty, did you ever check out the link I posted? This will help good dealers like yourself... those that refuse to reply to e-mails or cheat customers...

From a vendor perspective, we/they should be allowed to answer criticisms

OF COURSE... there has to be a way to answer criticisms from overly whiney or assholish customers. There will always be the ding-dongs who expect crazily-high levels of service or stuff for free.

we are admittedly slow at SOTW, as we are re-enactors first, have real jobs, and often have to wait on Deepeeka and other companies too, sometimes for LONG periods of time (We have a pompeii stove on order with them since october 2004!!). We also don't answer the phone much for the same reasons (we always answer email ASAP though).

Valid Point! Again, I am talking about something wherein you can reply to any postings about you. Want to see this in action? Go to the WWII Consumer Guide... then go to the reviews.. look at the ones for Lost Battalions and AEF Supply. Then look at someone w. a really, really LOW rating. You can see some of the crap posted and how they respond. Some don't even respond ([size=75:2e1fmngm]bad idea[/size])...

I have found the Internet is very anonymous for people to vent unreal levels of hatred at people and companies for seemingly small issues, or things that could have been easily foreseen (IE ordeing a custom vex for delivery in 3 days... NOT possible), and this should be taken into consideration. For every complaint, we fill roughly 32 orders with happy results (last year's numbers).

Rusty, I don't want to see anyone tarred w/ a brush they don't deserve... And as long as I had something to do w/ it, a vendor could explain as much as needed what happened in the transaction ([size=75:2e1fmngm]as long as they're not profane or attacking[/size]). The "customer" could also reply to the rebuttals... maybe it's not perfect, but... I htink it will be useful.

Also need to detail manufacturing vs. company complaint. IE, your gallic I arrives with an extra rivet somewhere... SOTW did not add it, and we do a brief inspection of the helms (usually looking for rust), they ship straight out. But we had it happen that a rivet was about 1/2 inch off and customer rudely demanded refund or replacement as if we did it intentionally. We refunded and kept it in the unit for our use... and I challenge you to pick it out of the Gallic I's in the sixth, a VERY monior blemish that makes it more real in my book. Your helm arrives crushed... with a crushed box... probably a UPS issue... no one ships damaged stuff on purpose. Your Gallic G arrives pitted with rust, dented, etc... blame company... should have at least looked it over. We have returned helms to deepeeka for rust.. and the result was a longer wait by the customer.

This comes down to unreal customer expectations. I'd put a line in there about them being made like the real thing w/ some crookedness... ([size=75:2e1fmngm]we discussed this on RAT[/size])... but seriously, each case is different. All i ask is you look at the WWII CG and think it over... give it a try.

Anyway, just issues to consider. There is a lot to consider here I think, and I feel the forum covers it already. I would prefer complaint get posted to the company link above... I thought that was why it was added.

I thought it was added to help vendors get the word about their products out...

I guess this will open up other companies to scrutiny too, so I see the good side of it as well, especially the trooper helm pushers! We rarely get a roman complaint anyway (paintballers... no patience whatsoever!!). Just my ramblings!

See, it could work out... besides, Matt and I will work to make it fair... what else can it be. If it turns to shit, Jasper can kill it...

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Is this a format we could adopt or is it imposseble to do that?
http://www.myarmoury.com/reviews.html

Nay... Look at the link I poste dto the WW2 Consumers Guide. That is the model I mean... a useful review of the VENDOR, not their individual products.

[Tarbicus]

a rivet was about 1/2 inch off

Makes it more accurate.

Your Gallic G arrives pitted with rust, dented, etc...

Even more accurate, should've charged extra. Better that than a Trooper helm, every cloud has a silver lining.

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

You mean Jeckyl and Hide..

As long as we all agree that I'm Dr. Jeckyl :-Þ

I'm not in favor of a section where we discuss vendors, that could be very tricky, not to mention prone to incident-discussing (I still have a bone to pick with LaWren's), and not looking like a consumers guide IMHO.

That's the point, perhaps things can be fixed. What did LaWren's do? I've always had good luck w/ them... it could work very easy. Hell, I KNOW the guy who started the WW2 CG. I've toyed w/ setting somethign liek that up on r.Net, but just don't have time. Really, for the most part, the reviews are good... very few are bad. Mos tof those are "handled" and the problems solved. Isn't that what everyone wants... their problem solved?

[Tarbicus]

How about you're only allowed to give a review of it if you actually bought it, or held it for a studious length of time, just as a basic principle. If you saw it in a photo, that's a no-no. And if you say it is just like such-and-such an artefact you have to point to sources, just like in the forum generally. And if you slag it off, the same.

And by that I'm talking about a description of the actual item. Experience of the vendors themselves is a different matter.

[rusty myers]

Well I trust you guys to keep it fair, like I said, any complaints we get are delays for one reason or another, and we always make stuff right one way or another. Screwups just expand out unit armor collection... We have had some great customers who waited months for stuff... and a few impatient ones who did not want to wait a week. We keep a little more inventory now, even pulled off a few second day air deliveries... but you seem to see the point I was making. I have read things that have no bearing on the reality of the situation on other boards, and one sided bias on many (not relating to us, but relating to people I know often). I still have 1 negative feedback on my ebay account for something I have no idea of that the seller just curses me about... I think it was a book... really do not know... Several years ago. Guy never did tell me what I ordered when I asked and offerred to make it right.

In any event I see it spawned some good discussion! Just wanted folks to see both sides of it. Heck, I have had my own bad experiences with some companies back when we first got into Roman re-enacting. Experiences my friends and comrades are aware of, but I have had subsequent good dealings with the same companies because I gave them a second chance.

Up to abut 5 cents now I think.

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

How about you're only allowed to give a review of it if you actually bought it, or held it for a studious length of time, just as a basic principle. If you saw it in a photo, that's a no-no. And if you say it is just like such-and-such an artefact you have to point to sources, just like in the forum generally. And if you slag it off, the same.

Ah, Brother Tarbicvs,
Sir, you miss my point... it is a review of one's experience w/ the vendor, not of his products. Yeah, if they are GRIEVIOUSLY bad, I can see mentioning it, but... since no one seems to have bothered to look at the link I posted, here is an example:

Message: Decent website but, they NEED to remove references to sizes of clothing they either DON'T HAVE or have NO INTENTION OF EVER STOCKING ! When you offer a given sized garment on the website then you should have it available now or in the near future OR mark it as OUT OF STOCK or just remove the size reference altogether. I give them an overall of 7 because they DO NOT stock or plan to stock many referenced sizes as listed on their website. They do not update their website in regards to stock/sizes.

Posted by: Dan Galena - [email protected]

Quality Rating: 8
Price Rating: 8
Overall Rating: 7
message posted: 10/21/2003

Rebuttal from Vendor
Message: Our records show this customer ordered an SS pattern M42 field blouse in size 52 set up for an infantry private on October 6, 2003. The item shipped the same day via UPS ground with delivery taking place on Oct 10, 2003 according to UPS. Not bad: item ordered in stock; same day shipping; delivery within 96 hours of the order.
The customer returned the field blouse to us with the following letter (written on the invoice) enclosed:
"Gentlemen: I'm returning the above items because the tunic (sic) is not long enough. Although it fits in the body the bottom of the tunic (sic) does not come to the top of the crack in my ass. Tunic (sic) is too short! It is a wonderful piece of clothing and I would love to own it. Looks like I may have to go to custom fit. Again, sorry for the return. Please apply funds to my credit card. - Dan Galena"
We refunded the customers payment to his credit card on Oct 21, 2003. It has long been our experience that very few reenactors, at least when they first come to us to be fitted for uniforms, understand that German uniforms introduced between 1933 and 1943 do not fit and were not meant to fit like any other jacket, civilian or military, before or since.
Every week we get calls from guys who want to order a size whatever "Long". They have been to an event and seen one of our uniforms and decide they must have one. They try on the jacket and think that it's too short and feel they need to get a "long" to get the jacket skirt hem down to where they think it should be. In fact, the length of the German field blouse skirt is solely determined by the sleeve length.
We've actually had to set up a web page at http://www.lostbattalions.com/german33- ... 33-45.html
showing the correct wartime fit of the uniform it is clearly nothing like a US Army uniform or a business suit.

Notice in the customers comments he says the "tunic" is a "wonderful piece of clothing and I would love to own it" and "it fits in the body". His problem is with the length of the bluse. Since he did not provide us with his height or dress shirt sleeve measure, we have no way of knowing precisely what length his sleeves need to be. However, he says nothing about the sleeve length and with WW2 German four pocket feldblusen, its the sleeve length that calls the tune for how short or long the body needs to be. In most cases, when our customers see the photos depicting the correct fit of actual wartime German uniforms, they decide that what we sent them does give them an amazingly authentic appearance. However, it's possible that some customers may have unique fitting requirements and for those customers we offer the services of the Lost Battalions Custom Shop. This new branch of Lost Battalions has the capability to manufacture any size uniform, so those who do not fit into the standard bell curve of sizes, can also have the pleasure of owning the best, most authentic German feldbluse on the market. However, we feel in this case that the customer actually fits into the size range of our standard products. He feels otherwise, but apparently he was not willing to wait on our production schedule and chose not to provide measurements.

Lost Battalions has grown immensely since its founding in 1995 and we estimate that we are now the #2 producer of German uniforms in the world, but we are still not big enough to keep every conceivable size of every German uniform model on in stock at all times. Even at this point, orders for certain sizes can involve a wait (probably not even necessary in this case). Also, I don't see how we can get a rating of 8 on the two rating elements and yet get an overall rating of 7.
Ed Walton
Lost Battalions Military Reproductions
[email protected]

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Now, here's two more posts, both good reviews...

Date Posted: 12/28/2005
Message: No doubt, their stuff has to be the best on the market. They're helpful, their site is educational, and the quality of their craftsmanship is unsurpassed. I go out of my way to look for "Lost Battalions" bargains.
Posted by: John Purdy - [email protected]

Quality Rating: 10
Price Rating: 10
Overall Rating: 10

Date Posted: 9/3/2005
Message: Order a pair of FJ pants from LB, Easy to deal with and super fast shipping Highest recommendations
Posted by: john hooper - [email protected]
Quality Rating: 10
Price Rating: 10
Overall Rating: 10

[size=150:j80ikci8]By the way, this was a major PAIN-IN-THE-ASS to format :-Þ Someone should appreciate my troubles... <slaps wrist to forehead...>[/size]