Aspis...

[spyros]

First of all, as I'm new here,
Hi everyone.

I've been reading quite a few of the posts in this agora (forum) for some time and I have to admit that I'm most impressed by the people participating in the discussions here. Also I'm a history maniac (oh, how original) and so I decided to enlist.

My main interest lies with the development of the Hellenic shield from the archaic dypilon shield up until the Hellenistic thyraios.

I'm planning on starting a reconstruction of a dypilon first and moving my way "up" chronologically.

Any comments, ideas, technical advise especially, would be most welcome.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Spyros,

Welcome to RAT!

[spyros]

Thank you fyle Vortigen, glad to be here

[Matthew Amt]

Khaire!

First of all, have you been to my humble site?

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/

There's a page on shield construction, at least the way I did mine.

Not that it makes any difference on how many reconstructions you make, or how you make them, but I don't think the Dipylon is a precursor to the Archaic/Classical aspis. There were round shields commonly in use from the late Bronze Age, so my guess is that the later aspis simply developed from those. The Dipylon existed alongside them, most likely derived from the Hittite shield of the same general shape (probably *not* from the earlier Bronze Age "figure-8" shield). But not a lot of solid evidence to go on, and like I said it won't affect the number of shields on your wall!

I'm like you, I'd like one of everything! Though mostly I'm working in the Bronze Age these days, where there is even less good information.

Have fun!

Matthew

[spyros]

Fyle Mathew,

Actually I visit your site on a weekly base for inspiration and ideas.
I mostly agree with your opinion about dipylon. There are strong arguments for the Hittite origin of the design. There is a wonderful reconstruction of a Thespian hoplite with a dipylon shield in a Greek historic magazine. I must scan it and post.

But since it existed in the Hellenic world it still interests me, also weaving is easier, than carving.

And by carving I refer to the Argive shield. I like your reconstruction but at some point I would like to actually carve an Argive aspis from oak. But that is for the future.

[hoplite14gr]

File Spyro...
For Dypilon shield:
We know that it had telamon because pottery shows it.
Votive pottery fragments show something like wicker work on them so it can be an option. Then you cover with leather.
Dan Howard suggested leather or skin layers in the bronze age center.
I consider it just another option.
If you go to Linothorax thread you will find my experimet with 15 linen layers. So 15 to 20 linen layers covered with leather is another option.
Hope I helped.
Kind regards

[Anonymous]

Fyle Mathew,

Actually I visit your site on a weekly base for inspiration and ideas.
I mostly agree with your opinion about dipylon. There are strong arguments for the Hittite origin of the design. There is a wonderful reconstruction of a Thespian hoplite with a dipylon shield in a Greek historic magazine. I must scan it and post.

But since it existed in the Hellenic world it still interests me, also weaving is easier, than carving.

And by carving I refer to the Argive shield. I like your reconstruction but at some point I would like to actually carve an Argive aspis from oak. But that is for the future.

You plan to weave the covering for your dipylon shield? Is that because you can't get good linen, or because you're a purist?

My Hoplomachai has an oaken aspis, I believe. It's pretty damned heavy although manageable, at 84cm diameter (he's not a big chap). Are you thinking in terms of carving from a single piece, or from planks? What about making it from layered strips, as the ones on the Chigi vase appear to have been?

Oh, and has anyone mentioned the First International Ancient Greek festival to you?

[spyros]

Fyle Stefane,

I've read your posts, linen seems a good idea but I prefer leather, it seems more apropriate for a 8th century shield.

I'm planning on using a tichtly weaved wicker body, very much like these african shields

http://www.newarkmuseum.org/images/afri ... er_new.jpg
http://www.africaandmore.com/product_im ... medium.jpg

and then saw boiled leather, either brine or lather over it. What do you think?

Fyle paulaallen, I'll be using planks. I've been experimenting with fire to bend wood with satisfaying results. My Grandfather was a woodcarver, thankfully he passed some of the techniques to my Father, nothing much, but we still have his old tools
(lovely forged tools made by our vilage ironsmith, unfortuately his old wood-lathe was lost)

About the festival, I've learned about it but I will not be able to attend, planning a mariage can do that to a man's social life

[Anonymous]

File Spyro,

I'm very interested in what you propose to do, good luck with it. I'm sorry you can't come to the Festival.

Have you considered constructing a pole-lathe?

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Hi,Paul.
Please elaborate on the pole lathe.
Some months ago, when I was trying to
"build a better mousetrap", in terms of
making my own aspis, I was thinking along
those lines but had no idea how to make it
happen.
I studied Matt's version in order to
visualize it's construction, thinking there must
be a way to use a lathe to carve it into shape.
I'd rather try the lathe than cutting the hoops.
Supplies and equipment are limited here.

Thanks.

(p.s.-could you use a router to do this?)

[hoplite14gr]

Fyle Spyro,
The links gave an understanfig on a pelti that I plan.
Too bad you cant make it in June.

As for hoplon I read some where that one way was to cut a round "slice" from an oak tree and then "chisel" it to shape.
Can any body advise if this can be done or if it is feesible?
Kind regards

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure how effective it would be in shield construction; pole lathes are normally used for turning cups and bowls, but I think it could offer a way to remove excess material from a shield shell.

It would take a long time to describe here, but I think you can find articles on pole lathe construction on the Internet. Try a search on that.

[Anonymous]

http://www.btinternet.com/~e_methven/wo ... struction'

I did the search myself. Here's one address - there were loads of others, offering instructions and pictures. Good luck!

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Thanks,Paul, for the quick reply.
I can't seem to get that site from
my current location.Will try later
from home.

Stefanos,That sounds like as good
a way as any, given you can remove
the excess wood. Sort of the same idea
I was getting at.
More like sculpting an aspis.

I just don't have the patience or equipment
for the concentric rings method.
Or I could just order the official"Paul Allen Aspis"
I heard about some weeks ago.(how's that coming,BTW?)

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks for the insight Andy.
It just come to my mind though that old barel makers used steam to bend the barel planks. Hope it helps.
Kind regards