Feather plumes - what kind of bird ?

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

I'd like to create a feather crest but need to know two things :

Which type of bird (species) ?

Which feathers from the bird (e.g. tail or wing feathers) ?

Would someone please point me in the right direction ?

Thank you, in advance

Theo

[Carlton Bach]

I'm not aware of any literature on the subject or any finds, but here's some spoeculation:

- feather crests were relatively common (about every second Italic helmet seems to have attachments)

- they were likely coloured, wehich probably means dyed, at least some of the time

- the feathers had to be large enough to be easily visible. There aren't that many species with the right size (though still quite a few - eagles, herons, cranes, storks, geese, swans, vultures, peacocks, even larger ducks could qualify)

- feathers do not last very long unless kept very carefully

All of this IMO points towards domesticated poultry being used. Geese were quite common in ancient italy, so I would suggest using goose wing feathers. They would have been relatively inexpensive and easily available through the market (unlike more martial species like eagle), are stiff and stand up well to abuse, and acept dye better than those of most other birds (ven if the goose in question is not all-white like our modern breeds often are). They also have the advantage of fitting surviving holders reasonably well.

I could see eagle feathers carrying particular prestige or the feathers of a particular breed being used for certain units or certain purposes, but I don't think any such use can have been universal unless they were worn much more rarely than we think.

(An eagle makes about two centurions' crests. A legion has 59 centurions. A crest lasts maybe a year with regular use, significantly longer with care. There are about 30 legions. Who is going to catch and pluck about 800 adult eagles each year?)

[Theodosius the Great]

Thanks, Carlton.

I suppose I should've mentioned that I'm making a feathered crest for my attic helmet. It's for my Tribune impression.

The feathered crests seen on monuments look very bushy and tall. So I was just wondering which bird's feathers has those characteristics. Does that description narrow the possibilities down a bit :?:

(An eagle makes about two centurions' crests. A legion has 59 centurions. A crest lasts maybe a year with regular use, significantly longer with care. There are about 30 legions. Who is going to catch and pluck about 800 adult eagles each year?)

That's quite an extrapolation :lol:

[DAN OF BRITANNIA]

Vindolanda excavations 2001 revealed A centurion's helmet plume, made of...
...wait for it-

local hair-moss -
(once a dark brown in its natural colour).

http://www.vindolanda.com/index.html (look for excavations 2001)

I'm sure a variety of materials like feathers, horse hair - and indeed the moss grass were used... depending on resources and availability... for instance Commodus was supposed to have killed ostriches in the arena and so it'd be a fair assumption to say if they were importing ostriches into 2nd C. AD Rome for sport, and possibly food (well supersize 'drumsticks' would be tempting)... then ostrich feather plumes wouldn't be unrealistic in that context.

I should think the Byzantine palaces were full of guards with peacock & ostrich feather plumes too.

I wonder if people on the colder, damper fringes imported such things or relied totally on local pony hair, feathers and indeed moss grass.

[Tarbicus]

local hair-moss -
(once a dark brown in its natural colour).

I really, really like it wink: Especially as it's the only crest ever found so far.

Or is it really?

[Carlton Bach]

Thanks, Carlton.

I suppose I should've mentioned that I'm making a feathered crest for my attic helmet. It's for my Tribune impression.

The feathered crests seen on monuments look very bushy and tall. So I was just wondering which bird's feathers has those characteristics. Does that description narrow the possibilities down a bit :?:

hmmm. These look like ostrich plumes, actually. Definitely not flight feathers, and I couldn't think of any other bird that has soft, bendy feathers that size. But these are Praetorians, aren't they?

[Carlton Bach]

for instance Commodus was supposed to have killed ostriches in the arena and so it'd be a fair assumption to say if they were importing ostriches into 2nd C. AD Rome for sport, and possibly food (well supersize 'drumsticks' would be tempting)

Ostrich is served boiled, with an agrodolce sauce of pepper, mint, caraway, celery seed, chopped dates, honey, vinegar, reduced wine must and a dash of fish sauce and oil, bound with starch. Poured hot over the sliced meat and sprinkled with ground pepper.

Or you use more sauce and cook the ostrich meat in it together with semolina to make a thick stew.

Just thought you might like to know.

[Tarbicus]

hmmm. These look like ostrich plumes

Perhaps they're cleverly assembled clumps of grass :wink:

[Theodosius the Great]

These look like ostrich plumes, actually. Definitely not flight feathers, and I couldn't think of any other bird that has soft, bendy feathers that size.

Okay, Ostrich plumes So are you saying they are tail feathers ?

But these are Praetorians, aren't they ?

I think there's some debate about that, but regardless of what "branch" they're from they are officers (i.e. Tribunes)

[A_Volpe]

Hands off the Eagle feathers...If you're here in the U.S. they are heavily protected species (and protected by raptor-philes like me)...Unless you're Native American and can document it, you can't use feathers from Any migratory species of birds, esspecially Eagles.

Go the more affordable route, I'd say domestic Duck/Duck/Goose feathers, probably tail and/or Primary wing feathers. Go find a farmer and offer to dispose of those molted feathers.

They also probably sell feathers in crafts stores? Although you're probably going to find Quail and Grouse feathers more than anything else, and probably coverts, secondary, and display/tail feathers at best.

As for Ostrich.. How about buying an Ostrich-feather duster or two or three and go from there?

I have to admit, Feather crests look totally spiffy.
Good luck!

[Carlton Bach]

These look like ostrich plumes, actually. Definitely not flight feathers, and I couldn't think of any other bird that has soft, bendy feathers that size.

Okay, Ostrich plumes So are you saying they are tail feathers ?

IIRC the ostrich has these duster feathers on its tail and wings. Keep the desert clean, I guess...

[Theodosius the Great]

Hands off the Eagle feathers...If you're here in the U.S. they are heavily protected species

IMO, they don't look right anyway

Go find a farmer and offer to dispose of those molted feathers.

There's an idea. Plenty of farm country in California :wink:

As for Ostrich.. How about buying an Ostrich-feather duster or two or three and go from there?

There's another idea I'll look for them. Thanks for the advice, Dudicus.

the ostrich has these duster feathers on its tail and wings. Keep the desert clean, I guess...

Oh, good. That makes my task easier 8) Thanks again, Carlton.

Valete

[Caballo]

Wouldn't a couple of pheasant feathers look rather spiffy in an optio's side plume holders? Plenty of them in Northern Britain!



And wouldn't lark's feathers be very appropriate for Legio V Alaudae (The Larks)?

Cheers

Britannicus

[DAN OF BRITANNIA]

Carlton... nice recipe!

To do a whole one for Christmas/Thanksgiving would take a huge oven and a great deal of stuffing.

It'd keep you in supplied with sandwiches until the summer though!

[Arthes]

Or even better......
http://www.rstacticalgear.com/pd_moss.cfm
So the Conan the Barbarian look could have been genuine.....!!!