Padded Armour

[John M McDermott]

I am experimenting with hide as a backing to the doubling of a hamata.

Maybe just thick wool was worn, but there is too much good evidence in this thread that a lot was going on under Roman armor than just a thick wool tunic. I believe their equipment was highly sophisticated. Fred Flintstone would not have fit in with the Roman Army.

[tlclark]

I am experimenting with hide as a backing to the doubling of a hamata.

Maybe just thick wool was worn, but there is too much good evidence in this thread that a lot was going on under Roman armor than just a thick wool tunic. I believe their equipment was highly sophisticated. Fred Flintstone would not have fit in with the Roman Army.

LOL!

Perhaps as a signifier wearing a saber-tooth skin, maybe.

:lol:

John, Let us know how the hide experiment works.

Thanks

Travis

[Tarbicus]

Fred Flintstone would not have fit in with the Roman Army.

Says who?

[Flavius Promotus]

I think Dan has a point insomuch as the armour padding which we call a subarmalis was perhaps not used from the very beginning. A superheavy tunic might as well have done the job - at least it was certainly better than nothing. When I look at the Roman soldiers on the Aemilius Paullus monument, they look rather slim - perhaps the padding under their mail armour was not too heavy? (on the other hand, sculptures should not be overinterpreted)

The problem is, and here I'm coming back to the first pages of this über-informative thread, the anonymous peri strategias (6th century) does mention special padding vests and writes they were once more frequently used. So we cannot say that the 'a strong tunic was enough' theory was valid all the time.
And of course the armour padding is very likely to have undergone developments - just like plate, mail or scale armour changed in time - but we simply know next to nothing about this.

The old problem :roll:

[Flavius Promotus]

Says who?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

John Goodman joins the Roman army...
...and the desperate custodes armorum start a frantic search for a fitting segmentata.

[FAVENTIANVS]

Tarbicus can you make a late Roman photoshop sketch, please?

[Tarbicus]

Tarbicus can you make a late Roman photoshop sketch, please?

Like this?

[FAVENTIANVS]

[John M McDermott]

And Barney Rubble?

[Robert Vermaat]

Folks, this is an interesting thread, let's keep it ON topic, shall we?

[tlclark]

Folks, this is an interesting thread, let's keep it ON topic, shall we?

Robert speaks and the board dies!

I am considering something about my subarmalis project.

I am having difficulty figuring out how to get it to fit tighter without tailoring it dramatically.

Then I thought, maybe it was laced, like a corset.

Any opinions?

Thanks

Travis

[Robert Vermaat]

And what about Stephenson's ideas to make it a 'primary' armour?

[tlclark]

And what about Stephenson's ideas to make it a 'primary' armour?

Well if what Dan is saying is accurate, and 15 layers of linen is sufficient, and that no glue was needed, then it is possible. Also, if, as I suggest, the subarmalis (at least for the musculata) is largely patterned after a late hellenistic linothorax, then that would make sense.

However while I think either is possible I know of no specific evidence, artistic or otherwise, that would suggest it. I have stephenson on the shelf right now thanks to ILL and I don't think he makes a very good case for it.

Travis

[Caballo]

A side comment. I went to the Wallace Collection to day to hear a lecture on the European arms and armour collection by David Edge. Regarding mail in Medieval times, he stated that under the mail was often worn "closely sewn" linen of 7 to 30 (!) layers to provide padding. Sadly, none has survived, but is attested by the literature.

Cheers

Caballo

[Tarbicus]

Would the thickness of the linen determine how many layers were used, do you think? The thicker the linen the lesser the number of layers?