Update on 1st Century Sarmatian Weapons

[Alanus]

Hi, Evan
I was speaking of Migration Era swords, fundamentally the swords' fancy fittings as we see on King Childric's. I find it hard to dismiss the Alans, Huns, and Goths, in the development of this style of sword since its origin was Rather East of Rome ; and I place the Roman influence as Extremely Late. The Romans and Germans would not have known of cloisonné if the Sarmatians hadn't invented it. Same with the art of imbedding a multitude of stones in a singular piece.



[attachment=12577]DSC_0119.JPG[/attachment]
Sarmatian pendant, cloisonné and amber decorated, 4th Century BC.

In the 1960s, Karl Jettmar noted, "[Sarmatian art] is less concentrated in its artistic character, but makes up for this by introducing a polychrome effect, using champlevé and cloisonné." He then referred back to Rostovtzeff who described examples from Kelermes dating to the 6th century BC.



[attachment=12578]DSC_0111.JPG[/attachment]
Sarmatian sword pommel in the shape of coiled animals, 3rd to 1st Century BC. The stones are Bactrian turquoise.


W.F. Volbach, writing on The Polychrome Style in 1969, also reminds us, "Its earliest exponents were the peoples of the East, particularly those in the Iranian provinces..." It has an Oriental origin. I did not say Childric's sword had a Sarmatian or Hunnic blade; I said it was a beautiful example of a Migration Era sword, referring to its artistic style. I know you love your Roman stuff; but other than the blade, Childric's sword carries an Eastern influence. In the 1st Century AD, the Aorsi were bringing Indic jewels from India by camel train. In successive centuries, the jewels were imported up the Danube to Pannonia and Germany. Some of the finest cloisonné and embedded art appears to have been made in the Po Vally, a hotbed of the Taifali.



[attachment=12579]DSC_0117.JPG[/attachment]
A Migration Era brooch decorated with Indic and Bactrian jewels.

Returning to the subject of Chinese related Sarmatian swords, I picture a late Sarmatian Type I sword pommel. I made this after an original illustrated in Simonenko.
[attachment=12580]DSC_0114_2015-07-27.JPG[/attachment]

[Alanus]

Escobar,

Referring to Figure 55. Swords 8 to 11 and 18 to 24 are all early, either of Chinese or Wusun/Roxolanic/Aorsic origin. These are similar to the Roxonani ones mentioned by Tacitus when describing the ice battle. They also show up in Western Han graves until about AD 200 when they were replaced by a single-edged "dao" with a two-point suspension system. As the centuries increased the two-hand grip was replaced by a single-handed one like we see on the Migration Era swords.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

The Huns used Sassanian swords, just saying. The art style influenced the Germanic swords, not the actual construction and blade typology, which was exclusively Roman in origin.

[Alanus]

The Huns used Sassanian swords, just saying. The art style influenced the Germanic swords, not the actual construction and blade typology, which was exclusively Roman in origin.

You note the Huns used Sassanian swords. This contradicts Botalov's paper which lumps Sarmatian and Hunnic swords in the same pile, sort of speaking. I'm inclined to think you're correct, and I see no connection between Hunnic swords and the Sarmatian versions which influenced the Chinese, who then influenced or improved the design. Escobar mentions an "authority" who claims the Saka and Sarmatians were wholly influenced by the Chinese. No so. It was a two-way street. :whistle:

[Escobar]

You know who it would be? Some Chinese annalist?

[Alanus]

I don't have a clue. Some of the Chinese writers are rather nationalistic. In that case, the Chinese influenced the Saka and Alans, and we hear no mention from the other side-- in other words, how the steppe tribes also, and earlier, influenced. the Chinese.

However, most Chinese archaeologists are fair in their judgment. And in this case, we see a truer picture where both sides, the steppe tribes and the Chinese, added to each others knowledge.

[Escobar]

Thanks Alanus
Magister Militium, thanks for explains about origins of the Childeric sword. In Beowulf is mentioned ring-pommel sword. Did this weapon not came from Great Steppe? Beowulf also using reflex bow, which is undoubtedly influence from Steppe. A. M. Chazanov in очерки военного дела сарматов state that nomad bows was often used in Central and West Europe during Great Migration period.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Yes, Recurve bows had been introduced to the West via the Sarmatians and were used extensively by the Romans in the 3rd Century onwards. Hunnic domination of Germania would also introduce them there.

The Ring-pommel blade is also a steppe influence, but they disappear in the 3rd century AD.

[Alanus]

The composite (re-curve) bow continued in use during successive centuries in Europe, notably by Avars who settled the Hungarian Plain (ie: Pannonia), and then even later by the Magyars. The Scandinavian garrison at Birka had a contingent of Magyar bowmen, and archery-related equipment has been found there... including what appears to be a thumb ring. mile:

[Dan D'Silva]

Where is the ring pommel sword mentioned in Beowulf? Given the setting, I would assume that it would be a Behmer type with a ring attached to the pommel, and I've never heard of this as being a Steppe influence.

[Michael Kerr]

Hi all, as I know very little on swords, this thread about ring pommel swords has me asking what is probably a dumb question from a history of swords novice. Why was the ring pommel so popular amongst the steppe people & Chinese? Was it a result of the forging process & therefore practical, simple & cheap? Was the ring used so a horseman could use material, rope or thong to attach sword to arm or wrist so that rider could not lose it in a cavalry melee? Being popular amongst steppe tribes was the ring used to suspend sword on tent or wagon wall when not in use or in storage? Or was it used for show to hang tassels & ribbons from in religious ceremonies or to intimidate others? Just curious as my first thoughts are that it has more to do with the actual sword manufacturing process.
Regards
Michael Kerr

[Escobar]

Yes, Recurve bows had been introduced to the West via the Sarmatians and were used extensively by the Romans in the 3rd Century onwards.

Chazanow wrote about Migration Period and Huns, 3rd century is far earlier and offtopic.

The composite (re-curve) bow continued in use during successive centuries in Europe, notably by Avars who settled the Hungarian Plain (ie: Pannonia), and then even later by the Magyars.

It is too late, Chazanow wrote about Migration Period and Huns, no more. Archers in Birka must be Hungarians due to the bows? If so, Avar weapons received by Offa, king of Mercia in 796 from Charlemagne, can be assumed as Avar reinforcements in Mercia.
https://www.academia.edu/1429936/Eastern...s_Garrison
Moreover, knives from Birka are similar to knives from south Poland and Novgorod.

Where is the ring pommel sword mentioned in Beowulf?

Original Beowulf is too archaic for me, I found this mention in polish edition of "Early Medieval" by George Henderson.
Alanus, Simonenko stated that Sarmatian swords have chinese origin. It is in english summary of Raiders. Where is true?

[Alanus]

To all,

Ring pommels were cheap to make. All you had to do was create an extra-long tang and then bend it in a circle. Han Dynasty illustrations show daos (knife-swords) with tassles streaming from the pommels. An Iazage ring-pommel sword is in the British Museum, indicating a cultural connection to the Scythians since the sword appears to be a carryover from the old-fashioned Scythian akinakes. Late Sarmatian akinakae also had ring pommels.

As to the Sarmatian Sword originating in China. We have to qualify that statement by adding specifics, ie: the Type I Late Sarmatian sword. Here is quick history of Chinese edged weapons:

Shang Dynasty-- bronze knives, apparently of Karasuk origin (a steppe tribe in the Minusinsk Basin, also charioteers).

Western Zhou-- bronze knives evolve into two-edged weapons, aka swords from 15 to 23 inches in length. Google the following: "Gaojian's Sword" for an illustrated example. The sword in its scabbard is tucked into a sash or belt.

Eastern Zhou (Warring States)-- the Chinese call upon the aid of the early Saka and Yue-Chi for assistance against the formative Hsinong-nu. The Saka/Yue-Chi introduce iron blades. The sword becomes longer, first one meter (40 inches or so) in length. The swords have jade disk pommels and shallow-V-shaped hand guards. The scabbard slide is introduced, and also the heavy jade chape for a counter-balance. The fittings are decorated with a single chilong (hydra).

Qin Dynasty into Eastern Han-- the sword becomes multi-layered steel, and by the 1st Century AD it becomes 3-layered forge-welded sanmai. The jade fittings become more ornate and we see two chilongs (mother and baby hydra).

Throughout the entire period, from Gaojian's sword to the end of the Eastern Han period, the sword remained in the same configuration, double-edges, and the blade never exceeds 1 7/8 inches in width. Some swords were up to 1 1/2 meters long. They are shown on the Orlat Battle Plaque, they are found in Chinese and Sarmatian graves from China to the Black Sea littoral. They were (and remain) some of the finest swords ever made. Simonenko, Treister, Trousdale, and many Russian archaeologists have commented on them. BUT, the refined steel sword was introduced to the Chinese who at first developed the stylish bronze version.

By the end of the Western Han Dynasty and the beginning of Three Kingdoms, the double-edged jian was replaced by the simpler single-edged dao. This early dao usually had a ring pommel. At the same time the one-point suspension system (the scabbard slide) was replaced by a two-point suspension system.

The Alans required sophisticated long-swords made from the best steel. Even today, these swords are still made in the honored tradition. They are the result of 500 years of refinement, from bronze to iron to three-layered folded and welded steel. Today, the fittings are either brass or a resin jade-dust composite. But the blades are made in the same fashion they were when the Sarmatian craftsman scrimmed the battle scenes on the Orlat Plaque.
Sorry for the boring length of this expalation. :dizzy:

[Escobar]

What are your sources about Sarmatian warfare? I know mainly russian books.

[Alanus]

What are your sources about Sarmatian warfare? I know mainly russian books.

Arrian wrote a treatise on Alanic warfare, but it no longer exists. Bits and pieces are in Tacitus. A few passages are found in Ammianus Marcelinus. Do not consider tactics described for the Iazyges; they were Sauromatae, not Alans. (The Alans came from the Saka/Massagetae with northern Sargat and southern Yue-Chi influences only. They were roughly a 70% Europoid and 30% Asiatic admixture. They did not practice slavery, they may have been matrilineal and patriarchic, an odd combination. The Alanic tribes also included the Wusun, Kangju, Aorsi, Alanorsi, Sirakes, Roxolani, and Taifali.) We can use snippets from Herodotous, the sections on the Massagetae, and a paragraph from Julius Frontinus, but there is no detail. Basically, we can use the their weapons (two handed slashing swords, the long contus), their armor, and their well-bred horses, as theoretical guides by recreating their tactics. They were fond of the Parthian shot and fake retreat. They loved to create the effect they were disorganized barbarians when, in fact, they were a highly effective military society. My main interests are the 1st couple of Centuries on either side of the Common Era, then going back to the Bronze Age. I would rather not use the term "Sarmatian," too all-inclusive.