Italic D question for Jurjen or anyone else

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Thanks Jurjen, he has some great stuff there!

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Got my mask in the mail today. Here is a picture of it just leaning against the cheek guards. I think I may try Brian's hook method but I don't want to modify the helmet irreversibly. I don't think the mask will stay in place without some kind of hinge or as Brian mentioned hook. It would be crucial for the attachment to be in the correct place to allow the eyes to line up with your head.

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[Doc]

Very nice mask. Where did you purchase it?

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Thanks! It's the Deepeeka low weight replacement. I got it from History-revisited.

[PhilusEstilius]

Jay.

Where I have fitted a hook to my copy of the Kalkreise mask is not just a fancy idea for the gap of 5mm at the upper mask edging does suggest that there may well have been such a hook, and indeed the three holes just below this gap indicates that there was some thing fitted there and these three holes could only have been made after the silver sheet was applied to the original mask. There are in fact yet another six holes in the original that suggest other things have been done to this mask at other stages of its workable life.

If you decide to fit such a hook to your mask you will also have to cut a slot through the front of your helmet for the mask hook to be fitted and this is a thing you are going to have to live with it becomes a permanent situation.

The only other method may be to put a soft material on the inside of the mask and put on a thicker padding to the forehead area so that when the cheekplates are pulled in it holds it in place, there is however the thing that with most helmets the thongs holding the plates cannot be pulled in tight enough so I would suggest you make one of these sliders that was found inside the Gallic D at Weisenau near Mainz. This kind of thing would have been fitted to the chin straps and when slid upwards would pull the cheekplates together firmly then just one cross over of the straps holds it tight and with pieces fitted to the ends of the straps it makes for a fantastic device to secure a helmet. There is also that this truncated cone would come up against the lower edge of the mask and help to hold it up in position on the face.
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[PhilusEstilius]

Here is this truncated cone in use on the Gallic D helmet that I made and as you can see it holds the cheekplates very well.
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[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Excellent, thanks Brian. I will try perhaps adding some padding to the inside forehead and see how it works. Currently I have a small bead on on my chin strap but perhaps a cone as you suggest would be more effective at holding the cheek pieces firmly in place. I find that when pulling the string tight it causes the rings to "Stand up" which doesn't allow the cheek pieces to get in tight against the mask. I think this is something I can fiddle with and solve. The only real concern is the top moving around. I'll try to add padding first before I consider a hook.

[PhilusEstilius]

What you need with that cone is to have the hole through it nice and tight for the straps this way the cone can stay up on its own, the metal band is made from a piece of brass and it became clear to me that the original had two tiny pin holes at 180 degrees around the base that was recessed back which may have held a similar metal ring at the base of the cone. This is in fact needed to give strength to the base of the cone which goes uppermost and the pull of the straps against this base protect the wood from splitting over time. There was also in the helmet when found a wood disc very similar to a draughts gaming counter piece that along with maybe another could have been the pieces for the ends of the chin straps however I used drilled out deer antler points at the end of the straps.

It is one of those things where you are going to have to get the positioning of the mask correct so as to be able to see with good vision.

[Doc]

Hello Jay,

What do you mean when you said Deepeeka low weight replacement? What is it made of? Tiinned brass? One suggestion, you should use some extra fine steel wool and dull that finish. For a more realistic appearence you should have a shine BUT the natural luster of a clean metal which is shiny but not a mirror finish as you have. Of course you have to make sure not to ruin the mask and that the plated layer is not too thin and comes off.

Cheers

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Hi Doc, apparently the original masks by Deepeeka were cast bronze and were very heavy. The one I bought is a replacement mask made by Deepeeka which is 18 gauge tinned brass and weighs about 0.5 lbs. It's not quite as shiny as it looks in the photo but I will take a green pad to it and dull it down to match the helmet. Thanks!

[Doc]

Excellent!!!

Thanks

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

No problem.

Brian, with a little bit of bending of the mask to fit the contour of the helmet I've got it to stay firmly in place just with the cheek pieces and chin strap tied tight. The only problem, if you can call it one is that the mask will not fit under the helmet but sits just under the forehead band. There just isn't enough room to go between my forehead and the helmet.


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[PhilusEstilius]

Jay .

I don't want to be critical of your helmet but it looks to me you could have needed just a little more room and depth in the bowl, for looking at the mask it appears to fit well with the eyes and line of sight. I don't know what kind of padding you may have inside the helmet but a small reduction there might help to lower the bowl just a bit.

Here is a method I have used at times for the inside of helmet bowls where it is only thin leather with a thong that can be adjusted to allow the helmet to be raised or lowered, the leathers simply have loops stitched into the ends to take the thong and adjustment of the thong moves the helmet up or down.
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[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Thanks Brian. I'll try a thinner liner first. The bowl is shallow to begin with. Great suggestion with the strips of leather.

[PhilusEstilius]

Jay.

When you have glued in the four pieces of leather it is also good to glue a piece over them around the edge of the bowl that helps hold them in place about 30mm wide there abouts all round the edge stops the four edges coming adrift.