DEVA 2012

[Graham Sumner]

Mark Downes wrote:

To all participants, reenactors, traders, authors supports staff etc; A HUGEthankyou for taking part. We really can't say a big enough thanks to those who stuck at it in terrible conditions on Sunday, adapted and made yet another successful event.

Thank you Mark.

Looking forward to next year and to the success of the Roman Fort Project!

Graham.

[Mergus]

Crispus - to a large extent I agree with you. We have known each other for 12 years, and I have always respected your opinion and knowledge on the subject. One of the big problems we have is that as re-enactors we do not wear what the Romans wore, how many have waterproofed their paenula, either with original lanolin or modern waterproofing? Not many I bet. However, the one thing that history has taught us is that conquering armies copy the styles of the indigenous population, and I would be very surprised if the Legions did not copy the local Britons to some extent with their leg and arm coverings.
The strive for authenticity is a good one. I used to be a purist but then I realised that in fact, in this modern world, it is better to be slightly inaccurate and give a good portrayal than to be 100% and not. Look at the Roman Tours Kid's Army, (which yes, we did do first!), totally inaccurate in every way but great at getting the public involved and interested.
As the event safety officer I was very surprised, to say the least, that we had a number of mild hypothermia cases. They were because people were not used to being outside in inclement conditions and did not take the proper care, wether Roman or not. One has to assume that the Romans, as with modern soldiers (as well as Farmers and anyone who works outside) would have taken the right care and precautions to avoid this.
However, as Mark wrote, most of us are very inaccurate with regards to one area of authenticity....our age. I am 48 and well aware that 1900 years ago there is a very good chance I would have been dead by now, and if not dead probably not still in service. What are we going to do about that from an authenticity viewpoint?
It is good that there are knowledgable people like yourself to add the authentic element to the discussion, but I hate to say that in many cases it is just conjecture as to what they wore.
I also do American Civil War re-enacting (total cowboys and Indians but great fun!). Most groups realise that accuracy and what in fact happens are 2 different things. In my group one Regiment does strive to be as authentic as possible; they march into camp with what the ACW soldier would have had and stay in it until they march out at the end. Because of this they normally have to have one member taken away by a very unauthentic Ambulance every weekend! Lets know our limitations.
This discussion of what the Romans did and did not do will go until time travel is possible. It is a useful one, and maybe one we can make into something at the next festival, lets get a large input from people.
The main thing about this Festival is to bring together as much of the Roman re-enacting world to produce a world class event, that I think we are doing, lets keep it growing each year. maybe a Cohort in 5 years time (Len, do you want to start making your Tribune gear!)

[fasta]

Gentlemen really is there need for the pops?As has been said before things could of been said at the event in a constructive way on the weekend if some believed there were problems.Posting it after the event smells of politics and is a far too easy thing to do.

The event was loved by the public and most taking part but you would never get that 100's of years span of Romans in reality.But that's the whole point.To show the full length of Rome's time in Chester.For those who only believe like Hollywood things didn't change really need to get out more.I expect the public to confuse Late Romans with Vikings but other re-enactors?

Thank you to Paul,all his team and those taking part from all periods.An excellent weekend and here is looking forward to 2013.

Britannia member

[sillicus]

Hello Pitor,

If you are unfamiliar with the Late - Roman period there is an excellent chance for you to put this right during the August Bank Holiday. There is a show at Old Sarum in Wiltshire, with groups attending from Europe too.


[attachment=4226]Attack2.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=4227]Parade.jpg[/attachment]

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[Vindex]

There is a show at Old Sarum in Wiltshire, with groups attending from Europe too.

Great! Right on my door step. :mrgreen:

[Iceman]

Some very interesting replies to Piotr he guys and it's interesting to note that he STILL hasn't replied to which group he is from!

Piotr, why didn't you mention any of this at the event, at a time when people could have responded instead of creating a huge debate on here where people feel they have to justify their actions/kit? This would have made more sense as all you have done is created animosity and started a non-constructive debate. Ps I do believe we are all entitled to speak out aloud, but I also believe that there is a time and a place to do so.

I can confirm there were 4 cases of hypothermia, all from early period Roman reenactors, as one of our Tiro was one of them and was 0.5 degrees c away froma trip to the local hospital, his core body temperature had dropped that much. There was also a couple of others who also had early stage hypothermia by the evening once we had got into civvies.

As for the braccae debate, I firmly believe that any army would wear what was available at the time in the local place for the day to day lives and the "correct" kit would be used for Parade duties. If a local Plaid wool was available from local traders then you would but that, not wait for the next expensive shipment to come in from the stores back in Rome. Therefore if some local was willing to sell warm weather trousers, cloaks, tunics etc you would buy it, use it, wear it and keep your good stuff for parades and official duties. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

The only dodgy kit I genuinely seen all weekend was a gladiator walking round with a "Maximus" helmet on with all the spikes etc. it turned out that this was a trader who was selling lots of kids plastic/wooden armour and was trying to drum up business, and was not a reenactor.

Thanks to all the groups who did attend and it was a privilege again to be led by our Prima Pilus Len Morgan, this time as our Vexilifer, and it was great to meet the authors Ben Kane, Ruth Downey, Douglas Jackson and Anthony Riches. And as always, it's always great to see Graham Sumner and catch up.

[tierney]

Hi.
Intro. my name is gary. i'm with Britannia for those that don't know me which is most of you i guess.

right down to the main post part.
I had lots of fun at Chester its my and the groups second year there in our current format.
the Parade was a real eye opener, it give's me a greater respect for the 1st centry guys for their ability to march with their heavier kit on. i've done charity walks in full combat 5th centry kit but those are on grass and dirt tracks the road was killer in the feet and the shield arm so damn good work to you guys.
the formation drill was just as good as last year well ok there was improvement but i guess all groups involved have been training on those formations used.
as to quality of kit. sorry it look ok to me but then what do i know, i guess only what people like Len tell me, i do 1st gladiator and 5th centry heavy infantry. personnaly i left out some fight kit parts. no padding under my maile which is long same as those worn in the pictures posted by simon. didn't wear my greaves wish i had as my leg wraps came undone durring the formation drill, thought one of the optios was going smack me for appearing on parade with ill fitting kit. and lastly the bracers we wear under our tunics which are to protect the forarms.
as to picking holes in other people kit i only find mixing modern with period a problem but such rules are down to the indiviual and the group leaders.
yes it was cold and wet, sunday i just could not get warm tried everything from manning the camp fire to having hot drink and changing into dryish clothing. as they say it happens.
looking forward to next year.

[Nurglitch]

Piotr, why didn't you mention any of this at the event,

How? Running from guy to guy and tugging at his bracers? Poking fingers in the 8mm clenched rings? At the "evil black" helmet? I was there for Saturday only, even if I wanted to make this kind of a sorry show I wouldn't have the time for it.

at a time when people could have responded instead of creating a huge debate on here where people feel they have to justify their actions/kit? This would have made more sense as all you have done is created animosity and started a non-constructive debate.

This would make 0 sense. During the event there is no chance of improving the kit. After the event there's the entire year to do so. Check what's wrong, draw conclusions, improve. Reviews are not written during the reading, but afterwards.



This being said I do catch the mood and I do understand the premise laid out in another thread that Chester is for public only and public "do not care". Rest assured I will not mention the level of kit at this event or any inaccuracies in it ever again.

[Iceman]

Piotr, why didn't you mention any of this at the event,

How? Running from guy to guy and tugging at his bracers? Poking fingers in the 8mm clenched rings? At the "evil black" helmet? I was there for Saturday only, even if I wanted to make this kind of a sorry show I wouldn't have the time for it.

How? Mention it to the group you was attached to, who you STILL won't say which group, and this could have been brought up at one of the many commanders meetings and discussed accordingly.

[Robert Vermaat]

People,

Before we get into a discussion about HOW to inform others (at an event or here) about 'not up to scratch' outfit, let me add that it's quite OK to do this in the forum, that's also why it exists.

Piotr, you were in your right to utter your worries here, and I agree that doing this at an event would not be very practical.
My only argument with your argument (which is why I posted in the first place), was the tone of it. We can say anything about other members and their outfits, as long as it remains a) respectful and b) constructive.
I've seen a lot of both in this thread, so please let's continue that way. No need to get personal, anyone.

[Robert Vermaat]

Seeing this thread verge away from Deva 2012, how about a new thread about Roman re-enactment and trousers?

[66kbm]

Wish i never started this thread, caused a lot of grief. Can we keep Deva 2012 for Deva 2012, i know we all have different views and opinions on "all" subjects and maybee start new threads for the subjects/material discussed that seem to have found thier way into this thread not related to the festival in general but to other specific items.....pretty please
Kevin

[Graham Sumner]

Byron wrote: as we have no Roman trousers, and images of them, to base something on

Have another look through that trusty well worn source you keep by your side! :wink:

By the way who is lifting up your tunica in your avatar picture. Is someone trying to examine your subarmalis!

More Chester pics to enjoy.

Some Late Romans.

Graham.

[Robert Vermaat]

I think there has been enough discussion in this Events thread about equipment criticism. there's aleady a separate thread, so this is an end to it. All posts about equipment criticism are no longer for this thread, and IF anyone should post criticism in future - be civil! Do NOT get personal! Forum rules, remember?

[tierney]

well in that case, i thought security did a fantastic job this year dealing with the minor yob collection, the extra fence panels help us feel much safer after last year. so possitive on that.
a few more smaller display area's would be nice, and notice boards with the days events and times on, the amount of puplic that didn't know what was happening and where. if there were such things already then sorry i didn't see them.
all in all lots of fun wish i'd got to see more of the smaller talks. over heard the early romans descriping the Impiral romans as late roman period which made me chuckle some what. cause that would make my lot either late late roman or very late roman. like i said fun times.