Ancient army numbers

[Darth_Roach]

I prefer to learn from you, you seem to have a better grasp of Greek warfare than Thucydides, Xenophon or any other source I of course haven't read... So, what are the words of Thucydides that tell us that the Athenians looked down on military training as something cowardly? I honestly do not remember as can be the case when anyone mentions something he claims he read in the original and does not provide the quote. Then, maybe, you could also tell me how you came to the conclusion that this is what the Greek army was like. I think that if I ever found the time to read Thucydides, I could find a good many quotes that would say the contrary, even though the quotes would be for a time later than the one in question, some here might argue. The choice of words is important when making a point. You might consider using milder vocabulary when talking history. As for the numbers of the Persians or anyone else, you of course are entitled to your opinion as is everyone.

I guess that for the Persians "invading a bunch of disunited city states" with an army of "untrained militiamen who thought that training was cowardly" would be a piece of cake. How did they lose? Or didn't they and all this story about the Persian Wars are simple propaganda in an effort to encourage a vassal Greece?

First of all, you are arguing with a strawman of my argument. My argument is that most hoplites were not really trained (not that training was terribly common), they were a militia of well armed and armored men. See this:

'If then we prefer to meet danger with a light heart but without laborious training, and with a courage which is gained by habit and not enforced by law, are we not greatly the gainers? Since we do not anticipate the pain, although, when the hour comes, we can be as brave as those who never allow themselves to rest; and thus too our city is equally admirable in peace and in war