Roman Military Clothing Vol 2

[Robert Vermaat]

Graham,<br>
I'm very glad you took the time to discuss this with me. I understand your choices a bit better now. After all's been said, you're the published author, not me.<br>
I'd like to stress that I find your book a great addittion to Late Roman studies, especially for the re-enactor. I'm very glad a third volume will be following the present ones. I wish you good luck and wisdom with the next set of figures!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 11/26/03 1:12 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

I just received Roman Military Clothing 1 and 2 and I just had the time to browse through the paintings. Naturally I was interested in the "macedonian" phalangite of Caracalla.<br>
I can' help to notice that not very long after the creation of that "phalanx" --one of Caracalla's whims according to the standard interpretation-- roman heavy infantry was issued knee lenght armour, longer spears and round shields, which implies a close order/phalanx type of fighting.<br>
The only thing that does not fit is the rawhide helmet mentioned by Dio Cassius. The IIIrd century heavy helmets don't really fit the description..<br>
But I've always wondered if those "macedonians" were not simply the "new model" soldiers that replaced the classical pilum/gladius legionary around the time Caracalla extended citizenship to the whole Empire.<br>
I am more and more convinced that, as happened in later times, Rome developed a "new model army" at the begining of the IIIrd century AD.<br>
The switch from the combination pilum/gladius to pike/spatha is not a simple evolution, it's a radical change in tactics and equipment.<br>
It's about that time too that the segmentata disappeared, BTW..<br>
I've read a lot of explanations for that disappearance except the simplest one: It was phased out by the roman authorities. That would explain the brutal disappearance of that type. Had it been an evolution the segmentatas would have gone more gradually, I think. <p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

I agree with the sentinents of a lot of the postings above. I can't say that I agreed with all of the conclusions or choices of subject matter in either book, but I respect Sumner enough as a researcher that I had no hesitation in buying each book the moment it became available even though I knew I would not agree with their entire content. I'll be buying the next book the day it comes out too. Just one small request Mr Sumner? Can we have less on colour this time and more on, for instance,regional styles of tunic embroidery?<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Crispus,<br>
I don't know what Graham will have to say on the matter, but, IMO, there is little what we can say about 'regional styles of embroidery' in the Late Empire. First, we haven't got enough information available. Second, what we have seems to point towards a wide diffusion of the same patterns inside the Empire.<br>
Third, it was not 'embroidery' it was 'tapestry weaving'<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Hi all,<br>
Graham Sumner as asked me to post this:<br>
<br>
Regional styles of Embroidery. I agree with Aitor on this subject. Taking Britain as an example The pieces of evidence for tunic decoration could be counted on one hand. This includes the gamma pattern found at Vindolanda and a couple of figures on late Roman mosaics which show orbiculii and stripes around the tunic sleeves.<br>
<br>
Even this limited amount of evidence would seem to suggest that the clothing decorations we know of from elsewhere, especially Egypt were distributed and or copied around the Empire.<br>
<br>
Finally I was very interested in the observation by Antoninus Lucretius about the Macedonian Phalangite as recreated by Caracalla. The description of Legionary anti cavalry drill by Arrian is basically a phalanx so possibly Caracalla's reforms were not so daft after all.<br>
<p></p><i></i>