Are double grip Roman shields real?

[PMBardunias]

While reading the Osprey Warrior title on Late Roman Infantry I came across this image of a scutum with a double grip. I'd like any and all information you may have on the possible existance of this shield. Is it a real roman shield type? Who used it, infantry, cavalry? Was it lenticular in profile, what was the curvature?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmm, I am guessing it would be cavalry, but not being an expert, will as someone who is!

[jkaler48]

I am guessing that the reconstuctionist may have decided two bolt/rivets found with the other shield hardware were for an additional grip. They just as well may have been for a carry strap.
There is sculptural evidence of Standard bearers have a slung shield. This Parma type shield may well have been a standard bearers shield.

[Matthew Amt]

That's a reconstruction of the Sutton Hoo shield, so No, not Roman. It's also a bit conjectural, because there was not enough organic remains to say anything about a strap like that. Only the metal fittings survived, and it looks like some were interpreted as fasteners for an arm strap. Problem is that there is zero evidence for such a strap from shields of that era.

Now, I'm pretty sure there IS Roman artwork that shows more than just a center grip. But then you get into the argument of whether it's just cadged from earlier Greek artwork showing the aspis, or whether some Roman shields may actually have used an aspis-style arrangement of grip and armband, if only as lingering Hellenistic influence. Especially if those artworks are highly stylized in other ways...

Sutton Hoo won't help ya, though!

Matthew

[M. Demetrius]

And, of course, [insert appropriate disclaimer] some of the shields on Trajan's column have both double grips and bosses. Go figger on that one....

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Double bosses as well? I've only seen double grips up to now. That's interesting!

[M. Demetrius]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Double grips, yes. Double bosses, no.

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Double grips, yes. Double bosses, no.

Ah I see what you meant. mrgreen:

[PMBardunias]

Thank you all, that's what I figured. As shown, the shield is terribly designed, and rather unlikely, but stranger things have been made. The weight is still centered on the hand and the arm is uselessly constricted- the grips should flank the center is a double grip shield. The Greek aspis is an exception, the exact opposite of this that is supportable by the porpax alone. Also, without a marked curvature, the wrist would be at a difficult angle to grip that center grip.

[Paullus Scipio]

A 'double grip' Roman shield is unlikely ( and yes, I realise we can't generalise too much about over a thousand years of Roman warfare).

One way in which "Western Mediterranean warfare" differed greatly from "Eastern/Greek Mediterranean warfare" is that 'western' warfare utilised many throwing weapons. This is reflected in the types of weapons used, the proportions of troop -types, the formations adopted, and the tactics used. In particular, Iberians and Celts adopted two Italian weapons for 'Heavy/close order' ( after throwing!) troops - the 'body/shield/scutum' and the 'heavy throwing weapon/pilum.

The 'body-shield/scutum' had a single grip for a reason. The 'heavy throwing weapon/pilum' had an iron shank at least a foot long. It was designed to penetrate the shield and keep going the length of the shank, so as to attack what lay beyond the shield for a foot or more. Holding a shield close to the body by a double grip or porpax was a very bad idea, since a 'pilum' would then stand a good chance of sticking in the man behind it. Hence a single grip shield that could be held at arm's length while such dangerous heavy weapons filled the air, but which could be brought close in for hand-to-hand fighting......

So long as the 'pilum/heavy throwing weapon' was around the battlefield - about as long as the Empire itself - a single-grip shield was a much better option than a 'double-grip' type along the fore-arm. ( the latter's advantage was that it could be held steadier and more rigidly).......

[ValentinianVictrix]

I'm sure that those pen and ink line drawings of both the Column of Theodosius and the Column of Arcadius show shields with double grips?

Im also remember seeing double grip shields on several Late Roman monumental remains.

[Paullus Scipio]

Yes, they are portrayed on a number of Roman monuments, but then so is the Greek 'aspis', for hundreds of years after it disappeared from history. The 'double grip' portrayal may be an artistic echo of this.....or maybe not !!

Certainly, AFIK, no trace of 'double grip' fittings has ever shown up in the archaeology from end of 1 C AD ( where they appear on T's column) to the end of Rome....which strongly suggests it didn't exist in reality, given that great length of time.

[PMBardunias]

Unlike the shield I posted at the start of this thread which is almost surely modern fantasy, many of the double-grip shields shown have the grips in the ergonomically appropriate position, on either side of the center of the shield as opposed to one on the center and one to the side. This is actually unlike the aspis, but similar to some examples of peltae and many later shields where the two straps are held in one hand or possibly slipped over the forearm. They still may be fantasy, but probably not a direct continuation of the aspis. More like a combination of shields known to the artists.