Othismos: Classical vs Crowd Theory Othismos

[Paullus Scipio]

Daniel wrote:

It seems to me that reenactors could provide illustrations of how weapons and equipment made pushing different from modern riots whereas modern riots are great illustrations of pushing mechanics.

.....I'd say that those two clips demonstrate why pushing tactics would be a failure!

Mind you, Paul B. could have chosen far better examples, such as the Korean riot footage featured on RAT some time ago, as an illustration of Roman combat! In those clips both sides were armed, and using close to lethal force! Being a 'civilised' British demonstration, the demonstrators offer no more than passive resistance, nor do the police act aggressively - there is little use of their batons, and the most aggressive weapon used is the edge of the shield.

On second thoughts, perhaps the lack of actual fighting allows illustration of 'pure' pushing. And against an unresisting crowd it is a total failure for the most part. The 'herding' Paul refers to produces, as he says, a crowd more difficult and denser to try and move. The failure of the flanking column of 'yellow-jackets' to drive down the flank ( and presumably the intention was then to turn in and 'herd' the crowd from two directions) illustrates that excessive depth isn't much help either.....

As you can see, such clips are open to interpretation, but I would agree that clips of riots, particularly the more vicious ones ( and see how successful 'pushing' is in them !) are as close to ancient combat 'en masse' as we are likely to see.....