Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.

[MonsGraupius]

MonsGraupius wrote:

So, what is the problem with understanding that the Thames is an extremely difficult barrier to cross ... what is it that people are having problems understanding ... THE THAMES IS A DEFENSIVE BARRIER!

This thread moves at such a rate it is difficult to know where to enter but here goes, with a feeling of impending doom….

If we go back only a few years before when Rome invaded in AD43 the Brythonic Tribes defended against the Roman advance at the River Medway.

The Romans tell us there were only British and an invasion of Belgae around 150BC. I've no idea who these non-historical "Brythonic" are. If you mean the British, please use the Roman terminology and just say British otherwise I have no idea what you mean.

The River Thames did not have embankments at that stage and at low tide the London Museum indicates there were islands in the River that could be used to easily cross at Southwark and at Westminster / Lambeth by the Britons who had no heavy armour and knew the way.

If you look at the map, you will see that the width of the main channel is very little different from that of today. Indeed, since the Thames would be crossed at low tide, when even today there are mud banks, the embankments make very little difference.

Because the width is much the same, that means the difficulty of crossing is not going to be very different. In theory, the Thames channel is crossable when the river is at low flow, but only for a very short period of time each tide. However, if the river were wider, what this means is that mud is more likely to settle on the banks, and the substantial mud banks make it MORE difficult to cross.

But, when I say "crossable", I am speaking as someone who has actually crossed large rivers the size of the Thames. We are not talking about a paddle with a bucket and spade. You would be terrified. The Spey is a comparable size river (smaller), and we have an account of the problems. I think the text is something like: "we had a problematic crossing, most got over, but a few women drowned". That is a non-tidal ford. In contrast the Thames at London is tidal, and being a long ford it would take some time, you could start crossing with virtually still water and before you get over the water could be flowing sufficiently to knock you from your feet and sweep you to your death.

The main point here is that the Thames was crossed by armies without a bridge only 17 or so years before Boudica.

At London Bridge. Because they built the bridge over the ford. Which is why London was the place to cross the Thames, which is why London was a critical place to hold to stop Boudica crossing the Thames. If the Thames were not crossable then, London would not exist.

Of course Caesar also crossed the Thames, as did his British opponents with their chariots, in his second invasion even earlier, possible at Weybridge or Cobham or Westminster and as did William the Conqueror at Wallingford in 1066.

The Picts & Scots crossed Hadrians wall ... your argument implies you think Hadrians wall was a mere folly and not a barrier, because it can be crossed.

Like any defensive barrier (like the Maginot Line) if you cant go over it you can always go around.

Which is why Suetonius after crossing south and putting troops to defend the Thames crossing (s), almost certainly moved west to defend the vulnerable west flank of the Thames line where the Thames could be easily crossed upstream of Goring.

The Thames is a barrier, like Hadrian's wall or the Antonine wall. Anyone could cross these ... just using a ladder ... but that does not stop them being a defensive line. And, likewise there are places or times the Thames could be crossed, but that does not stop it being a defensive line either.

The way a barrier like the Antonine wall or Thames works, is not to completely stop people getting across, instead it is to reduce the options for crossing and make those options that are available extremely costly to pursue, so that a small defensive force can hold back a much larger force.