Question regarding Magna Graecia colonies

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Ave

I am curious to know the ethnic extraction of the various Greek colonies in Southern Italy. I do know that Tarentum was a Doric colony which was known to its inhabitants as Taras. I was just wondering - were the other Greek cities in that area mostly Doric or a mixture of Doric and Ionic? Thanks in advance.



Imad

[hoplite14gr]

From 750 to 600 B.C. its relatively safe to say that Evoic colonies (Eretria, Chalkis, Kymi) are tribally Ionic. Megarean Corinthian and Rhodian colonies are tribally Doric. From 600 B.C colonies wanting to increase their population are less discriminating. Tyrants who relocate populations also mix tribes and Thourioi are a good example of multi-tribal colony.

Kind regards

[Ghostmojo]

According to the Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece (which is a handy reference tool) Magna Graecia - or perhaps we should call it Megale Hellas (?) - was colonised by all of the four main Greek tribes at one time or another.

Taras (later Tarantum) was the Spartan colony and the most significant Dorian colony in southern Italy, most of the other key Dorian cities being in Silicy (Selinous, Minoa, Akragas, Gela, Kamarina, Syracuse).

There are a lot of earlier Akhaian (Achaean) colonies almost exclusively in Italy - Poseidonia, Pyxous, Skidros, Laos, Terina, Medna, Matauros, Locri, Kaulonia.

The Ionians were also present, chiefly at Cumae, Neapolis (later Naples), Siris, Elea, Thurii and Rhegion in Italy, and at Mylai, Zankle, Naxos, Catana, Himera and Leontinoi in Sicily. The earliest known Ionian settlement was I believe by the Euboeans at Pithekoussai on Ischia.

As far as I know the Aiolians (Aeolians) only founded one main colony at Sybaris which we al know was destroyed by neighbouring Croton.

There are a good many others of whom I am uncertain as to the founding tribe such as: Kasmenai, Akrai (Acrae), Megara Hyblaia, Hipponion, Herakleia, Kaleakte, Kallipolis, Metapontion and Satyrion.

[Periander]

Hello all, finally decided to join the forum (bit of a long time lurker!).

With apologies to the original poster, I am uncertain whether this query needs its own thread.

I would like to ask if anyone has a reference pertaining to Corinthian colonies, which stipulates movements, economies, influences on surrounding regions and the like, how did these colonies vanish, that sort of thing.

If anyone has any information or could point me in the right direction I would be exceedingly glad!

Cheers

Nick

PS. I am fluent in both English and Greek, so there would be no problem in pointing me to any Greek language source.

[hoplite14gr]

The stories of each colony are collected from mainly Pausanias, Strabo and a bit of Herodotus, Thukidides plus Diodorus.

In the Aegean the most known Corinthian colony was Potidea in Chalcidiki.

Corinthians mainly found settlement in the Eptanessa and Western Greece as support points fot their most western colonies in Sicily and Italy

Happy New Year!

[Periander]

Hello Hoplite14gr, and thank you for your reply.

Pausanias is on my to-buy list, and I have both Herodotus and Thucydides. I will also look into your two other references as well! Since you mentioned Western Greece, that is the area I was most interested in researching, ie. Epirus and possibly farther north. But I would presume that no modern day studies have really delved into this area (even from just a dry archaeological perspective)?

Thank you once more for your helpful reply and I too, wish you and yours a Happy New Year!

Cheers

[Epictetus]

There appears to be some studies about Greek colonisation out there, but I haven’t personally read any of them.

In Cornell’s excellent Beginnings of Rome he mentions these books in his bibliography:
Ridgway, First Western Greeks, 1992
O Murray, Early Greece, 1980
J Boardman, The Greeks Overseas, 1980
AJ Graham, Cambridge Ancient History III.3

Forsyth, in his A Critical History of Early Rome, cites (in addition to some also mentioned in Cornell):
Dunabin, The Western Greeks: The History of Sicily and South Italy from the Foundation of the Greek Clonies to 480 BC, 1948
Woodhead, The Greeks in the West, 1962
Holloway, Italy and the Aegean 3000 – 700 BC, 1981
Frederiksen, Campania, 1984

Forsyth and Cornell both praise Ridgway. Forsyth says the book includes a “detailed analysis of the important archaeological data from the Greek colonial site of Pithecusa.” Since both of them like Ridgway, this might be a good one to check out. It also evidently includes a superb bibliography of other sources.

You might also try playing around with searches in The Journal of Hellenistic Studies. Go to “publications,” then pick one of the annual contents for the journal and there you can search. I would be flabbergasted if you couldn’t find anything buried in there somewhere.

[hoplite14gr]

Since you said Greek is no problem for you
For western Greece Corinthian colonies try the nagazin "Apeiros" in Greek.
It is online. I dag out lots of useful staff for my Pyrric Army Article.

Kind regards

[Periander]

Hello Epictetus and Hoplite,

Thanks a million for your pointers! Have a wealth of information dig through, now!

I had ordered in late November the following title, but it still hasn't arrived yet:

Raphael Sealey, A History of the Greek City States, 700-338 B. C., UCP, 1976 (ISBN: 9780520031777)

I'm hoping that this will give me some information as well. Those titles you have supplied me with, Epictetus, look like real gems - I shall begin to chase them up, pronto. I truly appreciate your lengthy and detailed references. Thank you!

Hoplite, the "Apeiros" magazine you refer to, that is the "Apeiros Hora" (??????? ????) one? That Dina Zirdou looks to be a prolific writer, she seems to have written many interesting articles. Had you written the following article: "?????? ? ???????? ??? ??????? ... ? ????? ??? ???????"?

With many thanks,

Nick

--Edit--

Oops! Just realised your name is Stefanos and not Stathis! :oops:

[hoplite14gr]

No I have used the magazine as source for an article in "Istorikes Selides" about the Army of King Pyrros.
Kind regards

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

What would be REALLY interesting to know is approximately at what point in history these colonies stopped using Greek in day-to-day use. If anyone has any input on this I'd love to hear a reply.

[hoplite14gr]

In the villages around Naples they still use them.

There are in inscriptions at churches in Sicily referring to the de Hauteville kings of Sicely as:

PISTOS EN CHRISTO VASILEYS rather than PIOUS EN CRISTO REX

Kind regards

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

In the villages around Naples they still use them.

There are in inscriptions at churches in Sicily referring to the de Hauteville kings of Sicely as:

PISTOS EN CHRISTO VASILEYS rather than PIOUS EN CRISTO REX

Kind regards

That is so amazing. And I'm sure those dialects would be unintelligible to modern Greek speakers. You whetted my appetite now! I'm going to do more research on this.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I once happened to sing such a song of greek-italiote dialect at a concert in Sicily. I had the same difficulty understanding the words as i have understanding Homer...
But i have as much difficulty,or more,to understand modern dilects from Crete,Rhodes,Hepeiros or any other greek island...

[hoplite14gr]

A song from the Grecophones of Italy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToZf8hWn8GE

Kind regards