04-08-2009, 04:15 AM
EEE-YO!!!
Silent indeed. He nowhere states (nor does any other author) that fighting eight deep is the norm for a Macedonian phalanx - that is your assertion. You are distracted by his vitriolic criticism of Kallisthenes. I have enumerated the other reason the Macedonians were eight deep at Issos. What Polybios does clearly describe is the effect of a charge when sixteen deep. Clearly "when sixteen deep".
Although Polybios feels compelled to explain the minutiae of the mechanics of phalanx operation (both at Cynoscephalae and in his assault on Kallistenes), he feels no such compunction to add when "closed up for action" after relating that Alexander's troops had reduced to eight deep.
Livy and Appian (again almost certainly excerpting Polybios) clearly state that Antiochus III's phalanx was "crowded" thirty-two deep in battle order.
Incidentally, Arrian at 2.8.v describes Alexander's approach 'prosagon ede Alexandros os es machen...' "in battle order". This being as soon as the plain was wide enough to admit his infantry and horse.
In any case, this might be pursued over black beer and / or decent red on Saturday evening methinks as the combination your insistence on Polybios stating that eight is normal and understood for 16 and my clear understanding that when he says sixteen he means sixteen (having already given a thorough description of a closed up phalanx) is becoming cyclical not to say boring for others.
We may be burning our bridges here....
Quote:Not silent ! He tells us categorically in his comments on Kallisthenes that Alexander's phalanx actually fought 8 deep, at Issus, having closed up from 16 deep.....and nowhere does any other author or Polybius suggest this was anything other than the norm, or describe a fighting depth of any other figure ( though I don't doubt that it occurred....trying not to generalise too much here! :wink: )
Silent indeed. He nowhere states (nor does any other author) that fighting eight deep is the norm for a Macedonian phalanx - that is your assertion. You are distracted by his vitriolic criticism of Kallisthenes. I have enumerated the other reason the Macedonians were eight deep at Issos. What Polybios does clearly describe is the effect of a charge when sixteen deep. Clearly "when sixteen deep".
Although Polybios feels compelled to explain the minutiae of the mechanics of phalanx operation (both at Cynoscephalae and in his assault on Kallistenes), he feels no such compunction to add when "closed up for action" after relating that Alexander's troops had reduced to eight deep.
Livy and Appian (again almost certainly excerpting Polybios) clearly state that Antiochus III's phalanx was "crowded" thirty-two deep in battle order.
Incidentally, Arrian at 2.8.v describes Alexander's approach 'prosagon ede Alexandros os es machen...' "in battle order". This being as soon as the plain was wide enough to admit his infantry and horse.
In any case, this might be pursued over black beer and / or decent red on Saturday evening methinks as the combination your insistence on Polybios stating that eight is normal and understood for 16 and my clear understanding that when he says sixteen he means sixteen (having already given a thorough description of a closed up phalanx) is becoming cyclical not to say boring for others.
We may be burning our bridges here....
Paralus|Michael Park
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
Academia.edu
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
Academia.edu
