Roman battlefield found deep inside Germany

[Simplex]

1."Hollywood meets Harzhorn" ?? :wink:
At Salzhemmendorf-Wallensee, Humboldtsee (D), Looks Medienproduktion GmbH is producing a documentary about “the battle at the Harzhorn” (near Northeim/Kalefeld ca. 50 km southeast) for german TV NDR to be broadcast in 2010.
Several groups of reenactors from Regensburg, Augsburg and Ingolstadt as well as the Populares Vindelicenses are participating.
The scholarly advisors include Henning Hassmann, archeologist-in-charge at the Landesamt für Denkmalschutz Niedersachsen, Privatdozent Dr. Günther Moosbauer, Osnabrück University and
Professor Dr. Michael Meyer Free University Berlin.
The works couldn’t be undertaken at the original scene, because access to this area is restricted because of environmental concerns and it’s role as an “archeological site”.
[url:2nzhm7xv]http://www.dewezet.de/portal/lokales/aktuell-vor-ort/coppenbruegge-salzhemmendorf_Roemerlager-am-Humboldtsee-_arid,189009.html[/url]
[url:2nzhm7xv]http://www.populares-vindelicenses.de/frameset.html[/url]

2. Maybe the following publication will shed a little bit more light onto the use of wood for weapons. (To be published !)
"Florian Westphal: Holzartefakte in kaiserzeitlichen Opfermooren. Das Material aus Thorsberg und Nydam. [ There were even arrow-tips from bone material according to : Joergen Ilkjaer und Rasmus Birch Iversen: Untergegangen - Germanische Heeresverbände und skandinavische Kriegsopferplätze, in : 2000 Jahre Varusschlacht, Konflikt S. 145 rechts ] Dendrochronologische und Holzarchäologische Aspekte. Thorsbergstudien 1.
Translation:
Florian Westphal : Wooden artefacts in "sacred" moors from the "imperial" era. The Material from Thorsberg and Nydam. [ Joergen Ilkjaer and Rasmus Birch Iversen: Sunken - Germanic Armies and places of war-sacrifice in Scandinavia, in 2000 Years of Varusschlacht: Konflict;
page 145 right] Dendrochronological and Archeological aspects.
[url:2nzhm7xv]http://www.illerup.dk/index.php?language=1[/url] in Danish and German
[url:2nzhm7xv]http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/0,1518,647876,00.html[/url] in German only
Maybe try that one :
[url:2nzhm7xv]http://translate.google.de/#[/url]
Translation to be improved --- as always.

Greez

Simplex

[D B Campbell]

1."Hollywood meets Harzhorn" ?? :wink:

Also here (thanks to Florian Himmler for the link). (20 Euros for a catapult arrow?! hock: )

[Robert]

I must say that is an impressive looking body of late Roman soldiers. Good show, that! The catapult bolt at 20 euro was probably the point at 15 euro and the wooden shaft with feathers at 5 (two fro the dowel and 3 for the goosefeathers). Catapult boltheads are not that hard to forge, you can make one in about half to three quarters of an hour. Have promised to make Christian one, so I will time the next one as soon as I light the forge again.

[Simplex]

....wow --- 20 a shot ! Finders keepers ?! 8)
So sooo --- only 3 horses .......
Well, with shots expensive like this they probably had to skimp on that one, I guess. :wink:
Now that's an entertaining link, D.B. My comliments go to Mr. Himmler as well.
Ahmm did I mention that they are planning to run this on TV for 45 Minutes ?
I'm really getting courious now.

Greez

Simplex

[Robert]

I presume quite a few of the bolts were retrieved and the Romans didn't have the euro, they had slavelabour and no blacksmith unions :lol:

[Sascha]

....wow --- 20 a shot ! Finders keepers ?! 8)
Simplex

The two arrows from the shooting?

The bolts are in a tree two and half Meters high and no one was able to remove it with an ordinary gripper.
The heads were to deep in the wood.
No ladder or bigger Tools were available, so went to place and collect them it.

Catapults are powerful...

[Simplex]

Update !?
There will be a documentary "Die Schlacht am Harzhorn" (The Battle of the Harzhorn) on german TV (NDR) on Saturday, Dec. 19th,
17.30 MEZ (Middle European Time) -- that is TOMORROW. (In German, --- but as I say: "Pictures do speak louder than words." :wink: )
[url:2w3meqnl]http://www.pressrelations.de/new/standard/dereferrer.cfm?r=394596[/url]

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

Slight update.
Press articles in German:
[url:2swrctnh]http://www.bild.de/BILD/regional/hannover/dpa/2010/01/05/neue-grabungen-auf-roemerschlachtfeld-geplant.html[/url]
Prof. Michael Meyer : The finds of 2009 ( about 1000) are in the process of getting a closer evaluation .
The excavations are to are to be continued by April.
http://www.abendblatt.de/region/article ... plant.html
Pic: Petra Lönne with spear-tip. Prof. Meyer: a "roundup" of the finds and findings is scheduled for February.

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

Harzhorn in National Geographic, Germany.
Although I established a notification link on "Harzhorn" I ran into more news just before they sent off the notification.
[url:39tvwwf0]http://www.presseportal.de/pm/6926/1621571/gruner_jahr_national_geographic[/url]
[url:39tvwwf0]http://www.ptext.de/pressemitteilung/gefecht-roemern-germanen-detail-rekonstruiert-moderne-technik-hilft-forschern-sc-75370[/url]
I thought that it would be interesting to go to the newsstand and have a look.
(For those as curious as me : [url:39tvwwf0]http://www.nationalgeographic.de/reportagen/die-rache-der-roemer[/url]. A short summary in German and 13 interesting photos-- in general quite a bit better than others that have already been published in the web.)
I decided to buy that magazine.
Having a short overwiew I'd say that it is not the usual 4- or 8-pager rubbish (like e.g. the article in the german newsmagazine >edit: Der Spiegel< on Kalkriese).
First, because the article spans over 24 pages, pics included.
(Also published here: [url:39tvwwf0]http://www.nationalgeographic.de/reportagen/topthemen/2010/fotostrecke-die-schlacht-am-harzhorn[/url])
Second, --as expected, the quality of the pictures included is good to exceptional, especially the 2-pager with the LIDAR-scan of the Harzhorn area.
Not that exceptional, except for their artistic execution, are the map included and and the 2-pager with a painting of the situation.
As for the map:
Its an overview of Germany and the neighbouring areas with the Rine/Danube-frontier and the courses of the Limes highlighted.
Also included arethe ethnological whereabouts of thegermanis and gaulic tribes with some of the main cities/garrisons of the frontier parts of the roman empire. No cities in the area between limes and rhine/danube a depicted. The Saalburg gets a dot.
In germania libera, Kalkriese, Hedemünden and the Harzhorn (of course ?!) have been marked along with 2 locations of major germanic findingplaces (principal burialplaces): Hagenow and Gommern.
I'm still scratching my head a bit over this.
To my choice I would either have included the Sparrenberger Egge at Bielefeld, the camp at Rüthen-Kneblinghausen and the mining complex at Soest as for crucial early imperial finding places.
I would not have included the course of the Odenwald-Limes. (What for ?? This line of defence had been out of order since 160 AD)
Instead I would have include the places of the locations of important weapons' offerings in northern Germany and Denmark.
I also would have included the locations of the Butzbach and Aalen camps as major garrisons along the limes at that time. (Hmmm, ----both still actually garrisoned at that time ??)
Frankfurt-Heddernheim (Nidda/civitas nidensium) would also have got a "honorable mention" as there have been military finds there from that era.
(A paper on the military finds from Nidda which can be attributed to the 2nd and 3rd century AD is awaiting publication, AFAIK)
O.K. then there is the spectaucar painting of a battlefield scene. Really folks, ---did the roman troopers still exclusively use a rectangular scutum those times ??
Now back to the contents:
As opposed to the press-releases ("about 1600 finds"), the main text only mentions "over 1500 predominantely military finds". (Do we have a "press hype here" -- Hello, hello ?! Hollywood on the line ?! :mrgreen: )
Yes, there are fancy catchphrase and stereotypes utilized here, especially on the seond part of the text, where they develop the historical situations that led to the battle -- from the varian times via the times of Mark Aurel and Caracalla and ultimately to the times that followed the battle.
References are given sparsely, a nod towards Herodian here and there, not even mentioning eventual "more in-depth publications" on the subject.
As for news on subjects interesting to members of this forum: yes, they also mention cataphracts being present there, but they do not give any further reference.
The topic of the "hobnails showing the lines of movements" is handled also quite "scroogey":
"The positions of the roman artillery could be derived from the positions of the hit-points of the projectiles --- as well as the movement of the legionaries from the findingplaces of the hobnails lost. The distribution of these having been painstackingly marked on maps by Lönne and her team. That way they could follow the traces for more than 4 km".
Well, I still haven't found any reference at all to where this map has been published. :roll:
But, this nitpicking aside, I nevertheless would give my recommendations to 1) visit the nNational Geographic website and 2) to buy that magazine (June 2010) if you like what you see there -- profound knowledge of the German language nonwithstanding.
(The actual pics in the magazine are w-a-y better than those on the web. :wink: )

Greez

Simplex
Edit 30May2010: Name of newsmagazine added: "DER SPIEGEL"

[D B Campbell]

... and 2) to buy that magazine (June 2010) if you like what you see there

Unfortunately only in the German edition of the magazine. (The UK edition has a cover story on how Greenland is returning to her Viking climate. :roll: )

[Simplex]

....ahmmm, --- hope they don't return to some of their viking HABITS :mrgreen:

Greez

Simplex

O.K. The Harzhorn subject seems to be dealt with only in the GERMAN issues. :!:

[Simplex]

Update:
They got their own website: [url:2z5ffbwt]http://www.roemerschlachtamharzhorn.de/[/url]
Hven't gone through it completely, but it seems
1) To be in German only yet
2) More a bit on the "entertainment side" , although some may find it useful that some finds are shown in larger size than in previous web-publications.

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

...excavations on the Harzhorn to comence from mid-July lasting till mid September this year, Northeim district authorities say.
[url:2h570ver]http://www.ad-hoc-news.de/ausgrabungen-auf-roemisch-germanischem-schlachtfeld-gehen--/de/News/21434085[/url]
Well, then ...now where are larger-scale publications on that subject ??
BTW: I just mailed to Dr. Petra Lönne and proposed an englisch version of their website. :wink:

Greez

Simplex

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

...excavations on the Harzhorn to comence from mid-July lasting till mid September this year, Northeim district authorities say.
[url:3upvarsg]http://www.ad-hoc-news.de/ausgrabungen-auf-roemisch-germanischem-schlachtfeld-gehen--/de/News/21434085[/url]
Well, then ...now where are larger-scale publications on that subject ??
BTW: I just mailed to Dr. Petra Lönne and proposed an englisch version of their website. :wink:

Greez

Simplex

Thanks Siggi, it would be greatly appreciated by mono linguials like me...

[Simplex]

...just received a "note of absence" from Dr. Lönne.

Greez

Simplex