02-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Where, I wonder, would we get fabric like that?
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
Padded Armour
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02-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Where, I wonder, would we get fabric like that?
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-17-2006, 05:00 PM
I have a piece of 4th/5th C. Egyptian linen cloth, could be from a robe but who knows, and I have to say the weave texture is not too dissimilar to the statue's pteryges. The similarity I'm comparing it to is the old part of the statue, not the new. It could still be linen you know. And if the weave seems too large for linen, that could just be a case of the sculpting being too fine to sculpt.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
02-17-2006, 05:13 PM
Thesculpting here seems so exacting that it makes me wonder if it is just "artistic license".
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-17-2006, 05:33 PM
Quote:Thesculpting here seems so exacting that it makes me wonder if it is just "artistic license". I agree, it seems an odd detail to include if they aren't cloth faced. The texture is diagonal, which is very similar to what weft-faced cloth looks like. So who knows?, but i agree with Aitor that the edges may not be woven but sewn, with very tight almost embroidery-like stitches like we see on the primaporta augustus here: The original and larger image are here: http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... primaporta you can see what looks like a double row of diagonal stitches along all three edges.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name) Moderator, RAT Rules for RAT: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
02-17-2006, 06:03 PM
There are several other depictions of pteruges that have a face of very large woven or knit cloth on this site.
Is cloth like this produce anywhere today?
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-17-2006, 06:12 PM
John I have seen some hemp canvas thats woven course like this. I have actually made my loculla (sp) from this type of hemp.
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
a.k.a. Paul M.
02-17-2006, 06:44 PM
Where did you get the fabric? I emailed Verena a picture of this this morning asking her what she thought it was. It looked not unlike her naalbinding.
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-17-2006, 06:51 PM
Here's an example of weft-faced heavy fabric up close.
http://handspinners.com/archives/summer ... bach02.jpg It's very similar in pattern to the pteruges. It's practically identical to the technique of a navajo rug, which is fairly heavy. Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name) Moderator, RAT Rules for RAT: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
02-17-2006, 07:09 PM
Very nice, but where?
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-17-2006, 07:40 PM
Quote:Very nice, but where? Unfortunately I think you need to get a weaver to do it custom. I don't know anywhere that sells weft-faced wool double cloth. Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name) Moderator, RAT Rules for RAT: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
02-18-2006, 01:55 AM
Here is some tablet weaving from a supplier in the UK.
Is it possible the face was decorative only, consisting of tablet weaving and a design, long lost on the sculpture?
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-18-2006, 02:12 AM
Note the fringes on this one.
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
02-18-2006, 02:30 AM
Quote:Here is some tablet weaving from a supplier in the UK. Sure. I think the weft-faced material could either be facing or the whole pteruges, depending on how thick it was and as far as decoration goes, It wouldn't surprise me if they were rather gaudy. Tablet weave is technically warp faced instead of weft-faced, but the effect is the same, a heavy weave where only one part of the weave is visible. There are lots of tablet weavers out there, I wonder if we could get one to make a few test pteruges.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name) Moderator, RAT Rules for RAT: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
02-18-2006, 06:00 AM
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
02-18-2006, 07:41 AM
First, many thanks for a fascinating discussion- the best of RAT, with bright informed people working together to move towards what might have happened.
A thought, if I may. I think that there are both leather and fabric covered pteruges here http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... primaporta In the image below, for example, I do not know how you would achieve this effect on fabric- but it is relatively easy with tooled leather. http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... itdeta.jpg Other depictions seem to me a deliberate attempt by the sculptor to say "Look, these pteruges are fabric covered" (see the most recent posts). Regards PB |
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