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The last one is the Duerne type if I'm correct. An officer helmet. Then there's the Berkasovo II next to it.
As for the others they seem to be intercisa-type.
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The two "Intercisa-Type" helmets (2nd and 3rd from the left) seem to be both from Augsburg-Pfersee,
if my eyes don't fail me, -- they were also present in 2007's exhibition at Trier (D)
"Konstantin der Grosse -- Imperator Caesar Flavius Constantinus". Makes me wonder what the differences between these two exhibitions may be --- apart from 5 years, that is. :wink:
Somebody got the latter catalogue. (In Italian only ?!)
Greez & Thanks in advance
Simplex
Siggi K.
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Quote:The two "Intercisa-Type" helmets (2nd and 3rd from the left) seem to be both from Augsburg-Pfersee,
if my eyes don't fail me, -- they were also present in 2007's exhibition at Trier (D)
"Konstantin der Grosse -- Imperator Caesar Flavius Constantinus". Makes me wonder what the differences between these two exhibitions may be --- apart from 5 years, that is. :wink:
Somebody got the latter catalogue. (In Italian only ?!)
Greez & Thanks in advance
Simplex
My mistake, those are augsburg.
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Quote:BUT
Take pictures is strictly forbidden!!!
We are in Italy hombre!
Same thing in Germany - it's what they agreed upon with the exhibition organisers, I think.
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Quote:The last one is the Duerne type if I'm correct. An officer helmet. Then there's the Berkasovo II next to it.
The Deurne is also of the Berkasovo type. ;-)
Quote:Simplex post=325557 Wrote:The two "Intercisa-Type" helmets (2nd and 3rd from the left) seem to be both from Augsburg-Pfersee,
if my eyes don't fail me, -- they were also present in 2007's exhibition at Trier (D)
My mistake, those are augsburg. I think that the Augsburg helmets also below to the Intercisa type? I know there's discussion about at least one of them (due to a nasal), but so far I heard no strong argument for the Berkasovo-type?
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Hi Robert,
...at least Miks does attribute them to the Deurne-Berkasovo type. (> Type 2. p7 pic12 *)
However I couldn't find further reasoning there. (Maybe he will publish that later on ?!) :???:
First problem: these two Pfresee's look slightly different from each other.
Also, of the original Intercisas type I and II look remarkably close to one of them
(the "shorter" one!), but lack the ornamenting of both "Pfersees", which they have in common with the Deurne-Berkasovo-types. The second Pfersee, also has rivets and a noseguard more characteristic to the D.-Berkasovo-types.
This website , however lists both Pfersees under "Intercisa-type"
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquip...-late.html
Now where's our helmet database gone ( did I miss s.th. there :whistle: ??) -- still in "migration period" ?? :mrgreen:
O.K. for those new to the subjects -- there have been previous discussions about late roman helmets:
e.g.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/17-roma...mitstart=0
or
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/17-roma...l?start=60
or
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/17-roma...rmany.html
or
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/18-refe...-miks.html
There may be other threads that have slipped my memory (like so many other things :dizzy: )
Greez
Simplex
I think I must still have some pics from Koblenz somewhere.
*Christian Miks, Vom Prunkstück zum Altmetall (~ From a Gem To Scrap)
Siggi K.
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In the middle, is that an Intercisa with a nasal? That seriously just blew my mind.
EDIT: Oh, I see, Pfersee. Then a followup question: did Intercisa helmets have nasals on occasions?
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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Mark,
...the Intercisa helmets as such ( found at Intercisa/Dunapentele, HUN , Type 1-4) seemed not to have nasals.I know of no picture of the originals or reconstructions thereof which give a hint that there might have been nasals attached. As for other "Intercisa-type" helmets -- well, it depends,IIRC I'd say mostly without nasals -- but my archives may still have "white spots here.I presume/suspect that the absence of nasals is counting as a characteristic of this kind of helmet. (As opposed to Deurne-Berkasovos).
Well, ... and the "Augsburg-Pfersee" with the nasal (the middle one on the pic) seems to be "under discussion" as far as its "classification" is concerned.(See my posting above)
Greez
Simplex
Siggi K.
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A 'classic' Intercisa:
- no nasal
- no base ring
- two parts bowl
- 'narrow' cheek plates attached with leather
- 'simple'
A 'classic' Berkasovo:
- nasal
- base ring
- two to six parts bowl
- 'broad' cheek plates attached with metal hinges
- 'elaborate'
All kinds of hybrids exist. I concede that one of the Augsburg-Pfersee helmets could belong to the Berkasovo type, but as a hybrid perhaps. The most damaged of the two is elaborately decorated, but this may simply show how 'ordinary' Intercisas could have looked.
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You can see a bad pictures of the Constantin helmet here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Propugnato...6860023878
Look the album Profuturus visita Mediolanum
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Quote:You can see a bad pictures of the Constantin helmet here
I think they made a nice replica of the coin, but not of an existing Late Roman helmet! ![Wink Wink](https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/images/smilies/wink.png) As the artist would have wanted to show as much of the face as possible, details of the helmet (which was meant to protect/enclose the face) would have been left out. I think this helmet would have looked much more like the Berkasovo I or the Budapest helmets, with a nice (but not too high) crest of peacock feathers.
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Anyone in the vicinity of Rome might be interested to know that this exhibition is showing at the Colosseum until September 15th 2013:
Constantine 313 DC - Rome
I wish I'd known that myself a few days ago, as I was passing through Rome, but missed it... :-(
Can anyone, meanwhile, identify this bust, apparently from the exibition? Presumably a Constantinian woman (Fausta?), but I've never seen it before:
Nathan Ross
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