also, there was a plaster cast made of this. I wonder if that is the discolouration and smear
visible?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Crispus, you are correct, Brian is referring to a sword he made with the scabbard
from Kalkrise. It was only the scabbard.
[attachment=3563]Scabbards.jpg[/attachment]
The one on the right is the scabbard he made based on the Kalkriese findings.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
That is correct as you say it was only parts of a scabbard that were found which I do believe a few people have made, indeed I even made the coin for the lad in the II Avgvsta group who did make a copy.
What I find is that most who have made it have done it as almost a pompeii style for a blade of around 5cm width, however when I made my copy I did it as a Caesarian type for having read the the paperwork on it and seen the original pieces the size of the hangers indicate it would never have been a blade that wide.
I would even consider that the blade of the sword that went into that scabbard was not much more than 4cm wide.
As far as the mask is concerned I don't think it was hit by anything at all and it's only a trick of the light or small marks on the surface.
5cm (c.2 inches) is actually quite wide for a Pompeii type (even though it has become the standard width for reconstructions carried by re-enactors) and most of the surviving blades which can be reliably measured are narrower than this, so 4cm would still be within the known range for a Pompeii type blade. I agree with you though that the scabbard probably would not have contained a Pompeii sword, as the evidence to date for such blades does not appear to show them being in use that early. I think your choice of the longer 'Caesarian' type was sensible as even if Mainz type blades may have been beginning to be seen by then, some other Augustan period swords, such as the one from the River Ljubljanica, are definitely closer to the proportions of swords like the Delos example.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
I have seen the reconstruction of the scabbard when I was at the Kalkriese museum some years back, and it is as you say where it falls into the modern concept of this 5cm width and also the length being similar to.
However the style of the silver guttering is saying some thing else other than a Pompeii I think, and where you mention the Ljubljanica my Kalkriese reconstruction was not too long after having made the Ljubljanica.
I do begin to wonder about the Denarius we see connected with the scabbard however in my reconstruction I went along with this, it is of course a coin of Augustus and what we see about it is where the obverse has been rubbed down absoloutely flat.
This has removed the statement of S.P.Q.R. PAREN. CONS. SVO. and also the ornaments of an eagle laurel and consular robes being the emblems of the chief of state.
I have to say please excuse for I think I am beginning to stray a bit away from topic, however the mask is a thing also that I have studied very much at first hand and reproduced a few times in the past.
This is where I think I can safely say it was not hit by anything other than possibly a knife of a member of the Cherusci tribe when he looted the silver sheet from it.
Brian asked me to add these to the thread, and I have taken th eliberty of posting his observations to save him the trouble of recommenting on them again! :-)
Quote: Here is another view of the mask that you don't see very often and
if you look at the top corner area you can see a hole, and also near the
edge in line with the mouth there is another hole that with this shot
unfortunately cannot be seen.
There are another two holes on the other side of the mask and all four of
these have nothing to do with the edge binding that held the silver sheet,
in fact the edging comes to half way over these holes.
However when the mask was covered in silver sheet none of these would have
been seen, nor indeed would the other two above the eyes have been seen but
they all had to be made before the silver sheet was put on there.
In fact if you look at the areas with the holes above the eyes they are dull
patches as if there had been two metal blocks that may have held a hinge
bar, and considering the gloss effect of the whole mask these possible
blocks might have been tinned also as I think the whole mask was before the
sheet was put on there.
The edging that held the silver sheet was silvered bronze and is or was held
by six more rivets therefore this mask has in fact 15 holes in it so we have
to ask why. ?
I have also put in a couple of pic's from the Robinson book that show the
only other mask that looks similar to the Kalkriese and that is the bronze
Vetchen, there is also a small comment by Robinson as to why this one also
has these four holes in the sides interesting.
It is also of interest that the Kalkriese looks to have been cut back very
similar to the Vetchen this is where I wonder if in fact these two masks at
one time had ears on them that had been removed.
Brian.
These are photos supplied by Brian and also his comments on them.
[attachment=3578]img031.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=3577]img030.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=3576]mask228.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=3579]BStobbsKalmask.jpg[/attachment]
Finally, one Brian made himself.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Thank you very much for your help and where we look at one of my reproductions I have fitted a hook to the forehead that would help clip it onto the browband of a Legionary style helmet with the cheekplates holding it to the face, this can of course be considered as assumption on my part to which I will agree is such but then if anyone can give any other sensible explanation for the three holes in the forehead I will welcome the input in fact there are another 6 holes that do need to be explained other than these three.
I have in the past been informed that there were no traces of tinning on the surface of the mask, however from experience of many other artifacts the surface finish can very well be preserved by there having been tinning which has all been removed by soil acids over time.
Where having mentioned that I have had close contact regarding this mask I might even agree with Christian, where he has suggested that it may even have received more recent damage and not from any battle damage in Roman times other than the plunder of it's silver sheet in the long drawn out Varus battle.
