actually, carrying a thrusting spear for somebody who should be using also a heavy javelin seems quite problematic for me - especially, if he also uses heavy shield with central grip - you have just two hands, so if you have a shield in one arm, then you need to carry hasta and javelin in another arm together.. maybe not a problem, but why not just carry two javelins like this all along? Scutum was supposed to have horisontal handle, which also means you couldnt hold it, and another javelin together, for that you would need vertical grip. but maybe you could strap extra javelins to the shield somehow..
If we asume that Hasta was similar to dory, it means it was about 1.3-1.4kg heavy, while Pilum weight from what I saw so far could be about 1.2-1.5kg as well. yet its most likely the shanks that would be a problem holding them together in one hand...
plus, the only reference to a spear use i remember reading, was from Pyrrhus wars, yet that was for Principes, and they didnt use it in one arm, but are described to grab them in both arms, which means they would have to drop the shield for it... why would they do such thing is suspicious... my guess, it could be something done temporarily, let say trying to fend off elephants.. in such case, you really need a longer reach, and shield wont help you much anyway...
and there is another point in this, that ancients might not differentiate that strictly between javelin and a spear as we do... they could just call everything a hasta.. even Pilum could be used as a spear in emergencies..
or another possibility would be that Hastati hurled whatever they got eventually... they disposed of their Pila, then, could be ressuplied with whatever javelins they still had somewhere.. even Hasta Velitaris.. or would throw whatever javelins enemy throw at them..
btw, is there any agreement or work made about when Pilum was adopted? Remember reading somewhere it might be an originally Etruscan weapon? but then, some historians think it could be copied off the Iberian Iron javelins?
If we asume that Hasta was similar to dory, it means it was about 1.3-1.4kg heavy, while Pilum weight from what I saw so far could be about 1.2-1.5kg as well. yet its most likely the shanks that would be a problem holding them together in one hand...
plus, the only reference to a spear use i remember reading, was from Pyrrhus wars, yet that was for Principes, and they didnt use it in one arm, but are described to grab them in both arms, which means they would have to drop the shield for it... why would they do such thing is suspicious... my guess, it could be something done temporarily, let say trying to fend off elephants.. in such case, you really need a longer reach, and shield wont help you much anyway...
and there is another point in this, that ancients might not differentiate that strictly between javelin and a spear as we do... they could just call everything a hasta.. even Pilum could be used as a spear in emergencies..
or another possibility would be that Hastati hurled whatever they got eventually... they disposed of their Pila, then, could be ressuplied with whatever javelins they still had somewhere.. even Hasta Velitaris.. or would throw whatever javelins enemy throw at them..
btw, is there any agreement or work made about when Pilum was adopted? Remember reading somewhere it might be an originally Etruscan weapon? but then, some historians think it could be copied off the Iberian Iron javelins?
Jaroslav Jakubov
