08-11-2016, 01:13 PM
Jaroslav wrote:
so you are saying that Proletarii were allowed to serve in legion? thats new... care to post some sources on this?
Aulus Gellius (16 10 9-12) sent me a text message saying that in times of emergency the state would levy the proletarii for military service and their arms were furbished by the state. Aulus Gellius further added that the proletarii were given a more auspicious name deprived from their duty and function. I guess this could mean that the proletarii could be called velites or maybe even rorarii. I think Valerius Maximus (2 3) says the same thing as does St. Augustine (The City of God 3 17) St Augustine also claims that the arming of the proletarii occurred for the first time sometime before the war with Pyrrhus, but this does not necessarily mean this was the first time in Roman history but it could have been some time since they had done this. Anyway, what would a bible bashing religious nut job like St. Augustine know about anything other than thumping his drum about Jesus?
Polybius seems to think that when the state was threatened they increased the size of the legions, so who could they be?
Jaroslav wrote:
and just to be clear.. i'm not talking about Legions after Marius, but Legions in the bring of Second Punic War, or legions before Cynoscephalae or Pydna... Steven's numbers are specific for 232BC, so lets not mix them up with Caesarian census..
I have no idea why you need to caution me about bringing Caesar into the legion, I haven’t done so. I spoke with Steven from Thailand and Steven said his numbers are specific for 228 BC and it was in 232 BC that the land was being acquired for the expansion due to the Agrarian Law of Flaminius. But Steven said that the 252,000 men in the 35 tribes was appropriate for Cannae to Pydna and beyond that.
Jaroslav wrote:
Besides, my point still stands.. Class I from those numbers was the biggest one, i counted 36% of all.
Well I do not doubt you and have not done so maybe you have got the wrong person. And Class I in the Servian constitution is also the largest class with 40 centuries so no argument from me. Guess that shows the Servian constitution did not change that much.
Bryan wrote:
BTW, there were 18 centuries of Equestrian, not 12.
Livy (43.16) “The tribune fixed a day for the discussion of this proposal in the Assembly...The case of Claudius was taken first. Eight out of the twelve centuries of equites and several other centuries of the first class sentenced him to a fine.”
Also for the battle of Veii in 480 BC, Dionysius mentions 1,200 cavalry for the Roman army.
so you are saying that Proletarii were allowed to serve in legion? thats new... care to post some sources on this?
Aulus Gellius (16 10 9-12) sent me a text message saying that in times of emergency the state would levy the proletarii for military service and their arms were furbished by the state. Aulus Gellius further added that the proletarii were given a more auspicious name deprived from their duty and function. I guess this could mean that the proletarii could be called velites or maybe even rorarii. I think Valerius Maximus (2 3) says the same thing as does St. Augustine (The City of God 3 17) St Augustine also claims that the arming of the proletarii occurred for the first time sometime before the war with Pyrrhus, but this does not necessarily mean this was the first time in Roman history but it could have been some time since they had done this. Anyway, what would a bible bashing religious nut job like St. Augustine know about anything other than thumping his drum about Jesus?
Polybius seems to think that when the state was threatened they increased the size of the legions, so who could they be?
Jaroslav wrote:
and just to be clear.. i'm not talking about Legions after Marius, but Legions in the bring of Second Punic War, or legions before Cynoscephalae or Pydna... Steven's numbers are specific for 232BC, so lets not mix them up with Caesarian census..
I have no idea why you need to caution me about bringing Caesar into the legion, I haven’t done so. I spoke with Steven from Thailand and Steven said his numbers are specific for 228 BC and it was in 232 BC that the land was being acquired for the expansion due to the Agrarian Law of Flaminius. But Steven said that the 252,000 men in the 35 tribes was appropriate for Cannae to Pydna and beyond that.
Jaroslav wrote:
Besides, my point still stands.. Class I from those numbers was the biggest one, i counted 36% of all.
Well I do not doubt you and have not done so maybe you have got the wrong person. And Class I in the Servian constitution is also the largest class with 40 centuries so no argument from me. Guess that shows the Servian constitution did not change that much.
Bryan wrote:
BTW, there were 18 centuries of Equestrian, not 12.
Livy (43.16) “The tribune fixed a day for the discussion of this proposal in the Assembly...The case of Claudius was taken first. Eight out of the twelve centuries of equites and several other centuries of the first class sentenced him to a fine.”
Also for the battle of Veii in 480 BC, Dionysius mentions 1,200 cavalry for the Roman army.
