01-10-2015, 12:14 PM
Thank you Flavius Aetius To have posted an image of the Amazonomachy, it is indeed a major source.
Several things. Let us not confuse everything. it is difficult to identify with certaintly an element of armor or an other one from simple representations. We are agree. The part of interpretation is important and each according to his level of analysis can understand what he wants.
However, you will have noticed that I deliberately quoted colored pictorial sources and not monochrome. Also I cited sources whose craft quality of the realization allows a detailed reading of the source which lets not much doubt over what is observable or not.
To return to sources quoted by Márk György Kis I also agree with you. I see too short sleeves of scales on the panel. As for the medallion, it is difficult to see fine protections of shoulders for a representation there which could make reference to very different elements. All this does not prove much, except for saying that scales armors are extended by sleeves or that ptèruges decorates the shoulders of body armor.
Very well, but I want to say that all this has nothing common with I call protections of shoulders such as we can see them on the Amazonomachie du Louvre or on the Mosaics of Nabeul. If archaism there is or stylization, they are somewhere else.
From there, on these examples, it is possible to deduct several aspects:
1) This part of armor is round shape, she can be decorated and independent on classic pauldrons.
2) They are in same colors as the body of the cuirass what suggests an identical species.
3) These protections of shoulders are articulated because they marry the shape of the shoulder and comes to flatten itself there.
I don't see stylization here but the appearance of new armor element from course of IIIth century.
Valentinian I is well know to creat new weapons to his reign?
The shoulders plate protection enter to the official imperial représentation on the solidii of Crispus type and Theodose I type until Johan in late Vth century at the same time in artistic production. Mostly in the Vth Century. There are an evolution.
It is remarquabe that in late roman times, the shoulders plate appears on anatomic body armor rather than squamata. Here, i'm in false but clearly armored sleeves and shoulders plate protection are not the same thing.
Several things. Let us not confuse everything. it is difficult to identify with certaintly an element of armor or an other one from simple representations. We are agree. The part of interpretation is important and each according to his level of analysis can understand what he wants.
However, you will have noticed that I deliberately quoted colored pictorial sources and not monochrome. Also I cited sources whose craft quality of the realization allows a detailed reading of the source which lets not much doubt over what is observable or not.
To return to sources quoted by Márk György Kis I also agree with you. I see too short sleeves of scales on the panel. As for the medallion, it is difficult to see fine protections of shoulders for a representation there which could make reference to very different elements. All this does not prove much, except for saying that scales armors are extended by sleeves or that ptèruges decorates the shoulders of body armor.
Very well, but I want to say that all this has nothing common with I call protections of shoulders such as we can see them on the Amazonomachie du Louvre or on the Mosaics of Nabeul. If archaism there is or stylization, they are somewhere else.
From there, on these examples, it is possible to deduct several aspects:
1) This part of armor is round shape, she can be decorated and independent on classic pauldrons.
2) They are in same colors as the body of the cuirass what suggests an identical species.
3) These protections of shoulders are articulated because they marry the shape of the shoulder and comes to flatten itself there.
I don't see stylization here but the appearance of new armor element from course of IIIth century.
Valentinian I is well know to creat new weapons to his reign?
The shoulders plate protection enter to the official imperial représentation on the solidii of Crispus type and Theodose I type until Johan in late Vth century at the same time in artistic production. Mostly in the Vth Century. There are an evolution.
It is remarquabe that in late roman times, the shoulders plate appears on anatomic body armor rather than squamata. Here, i'm in false but clearly armored sleeves and shoulders plate protection are not the same thing.
