12-19-2014, 10:36 PM
I made a 'quick reply' here that seems to have gone astray for some reason. The main point was that all of these sorts of things like shield devices are very poorly documented (pro or con) in our pitifully incomplete data set on hoplite warfare. Therefore, the advice to "agree to disagree" is (as almost always) extremely sound. But that having been said, it certainly shouldn't damp a vigorous discussion that will end up better educating all involved (I certainly have gleaned a good deal from the posts on this thread to date!).
My only real addition to the topic at hand is that as long-term hegemon in the Peloponnese, anything Sparta might have adopted (whether universally or for only for certain portions of its troops like psiloi or mobilized helots) would likely (IMO) have influenced others in their net of alliances to do something similar. Nor would it seem odd for the Spartans to have taken such a military technique from another polis like Sicyon or Athens if they deemed it good and practical. They clearly went that route in adopting the Athenians' concept of epiteichismos (fortifications deep in enemy territory), turning that idea back upon its originators in setting up an outpost at Decelea to help win the Peloponnesian War.
Similarly with regard to shields in particular, it's been proposed that some basic elements of the aspis might have been imported into mainland Greece from Caria in Asia Minor via Euboa. These were perhaps then improved upon at Argos before the Spartans ever got around to using the aspis, possibly doing so only after some very painful defeats against Argive phalanxes employing those new-fangled shields. That they could have then tacked on a standard shield device as an idea stolen from somewhere else doesn't look very strange from that perspective. A certainty? Heck no! Possible? Absolutely! Probable? Well, that's going to a call each person will have to make on his own in context of personal knowledge, bias, etc. :grin:
My only real addition to the topic at hand is that as long-term hegemon in the Peloponnese, anything Sparta might have adopted (whether universally or for only for certain portions of its troops like psiloi or mobilized helots) would likely (IMO) have influenced others in their net of alliances to do something similar. Nor would it seem odd for the Spartans to have taken such a military technique from another polis like Sicyon or Athens if they deemed it good and practical. They clearly went that route in adopting the Athenians' concept of epiteichismos (fortifications deep in enemy territory), turning that idea back upon its originators in setting up an outpost at Decelea to help win the Peloponnesian War.
Similarly with regard to shields in particular, it's been proposed that some basic elements of the aspis might have been imported into mainland Greece from Caria in Asia Minor via Euboa. These were perhaps then improved upon at Argos before the Spartans ever got around to using the aspis, possibly doing so only after some very painful defeats against Argive phalanxes employing those new-fangled shields. That they could have then tacked on a standard shield device as an idea stolen from somewhere else doesn't look very strange from that perspective. A certainty? Heck no! Possible? Absolutely! Probable? Well, that's going to a call each person will have to make on his own in context of personal knowledge, bias, etc. :grin:
It\'s only by appreciating accurate accounts of real combat past and present that we can begin to approach the Greek hoplite\'s hard-won awareness of war\'s potential merits and ultimate limitations.
- Fred Eugene Ray (aka "Old Husker")
- Fred Eugene Ray (aka "Old Husker")
